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Old 12-11-2019, 12:42 PM #11
OnlytheTruth OnlytheTruth is offline
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Originally Posted by ShaneMosleySr View Post
Whyte and Joshua fought two weeks after Tyson Fury won the heavyweight championship by beating Wladimir Klitschko.

So that fight wouldn’t have been for the title.
Well, Fury then semi-retired and then ate some wild boar nuts or whatever it was.

So it's not Whyte, its not Wilder, its not Fury. So Joshua v Klitschko?

No, that doesn't seem right.
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Old 12-11-2019, 01:18 PM #12
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Ring is just a magazine with no power to dictate who is or is not champion except whatever power someone wants to give them. Lineal is just a mythical title that is full of flaws and holes and just like Ring titles carries no weight and means little or nothing. How can Fury possibly remain lineal champ when he left boxing for about three years? I accept that he became lineal champ by beating Wlad who was generally considered the lineal champ. But the lineal championship like any other title must be defended or lost. The champ can't just do nothing for 3 years and remain lineal champ. What kind of BS is that? Like it or not the alphabet titles are the ones who determine who is champ and have monetary value. AJ has 3 of them and Wilder has 1. Fury has no world title of any kind and is NOT the lineal champ either. One boxer must get all the belts to be the unified and lineal champ. Unless Fury defeats Wilder and becomes the WBC heavyweight champ he is not part of the lineal or unified title race. Wilder is contracted to fight Fury next. But if Wilder folught AJ instead the winner of that fight would be both the unified and the lineal heavyweight champ and Fury would still be only a top contender. Maybe Fury got robbed in his fight with Wilder and should now be the WBC champ but officially he only got a draw and is not a champion.
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Old 12-11-2019, 01:23 PM #13
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That's good I guess.

Thing is TBRB and Ring's version of Lineal are inconsistent. Whatever rules they go by seem made up to fit the situation.


Corbett is listed by both as champion until he lost to Fitz. Fury is listed as champion until his announced retirement. Corbett's announced retirement is not reflected in either Ring or TBRB's list of champions.

Wlad having been lineal on the ground of being the consensus best in the division is fine. Wlad being lineal because he was ranked #1 and Chagaev #2 has no historical grounds whats so ever and is an affront to the meaning of the lineal title. If not for sanctioning bodies we wouldn't have ranks. The lineal title is in no way relative to any ranking board, period. Making it relative is just made up bull****. Both adhere to said made up bull****.

The way Ali is handled as a lineal champion by both TBRB and Ring is extremely inconsistent with their handling Jack Johnson and his time away from the states.

Jim Jeffries' retirement is again handled differently from both Fury's and Corbett's. To be fair to that one, Jim's retirement and return in terms of lineal vs popular sentiments at the time is confusing and steeped in racism. When he retired no one said boo like they did to Corbett, but, when he returned he returned as the champion and that's not reflected in any lists. Probably because it's confusing in list form and the only reason Jeffries was consensus champion was because of racism, even Jeffries didn't believe he had it anymore.

Joe Louis' return is again handled differently from Corbett's, Jeffries', and Fury's as he's not the champion anymore when he retires but Ezzard isn't the champion either until Charles beats Louis.



How can I take either Ring or TBRB seriously as keepers of the historical title when knowledge of that title makes me question the narrative they push? Why should I give a rats ass about Ring or TBRB if Ring and TBRB are about as consistent as fanboys?


Shouldn't the lineal title actually reflect the traditions that guided who was champion before the sanctioning bodies?

What Ring and now TBRB have created is just a list of bull**** that flip-flop of credentials and criteria to meet a made up standard that has nothing to do with traditions without bodies and has more to do with using body logic, like ranking, to validate picking one champion.

I am not opposed to the idea of one champion outside of bodies, but, be honest about the title then. It has nothing to do with Sullivan or his era and does not in anyway reflect the prestige of the past. It is simply a title that claims to not be guided by boxing politics or manipulated by their own rules.
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Old 12-11-2019, 01:35 PM #14
ShaneMosleySr ShaneMosleySr is online now
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There wouldn’t be a champion because there hasn’t been a 1 vs. 2 matchup in a long time.

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Originally Posted by OnlytheTruth View Post
Well, Fury then semi-retired and then ate some wild boar nuts or whatever it was.

So it's not Whyte, its not Wilder, its not Fury. So Joshua v Klitschko?

No, that doesn't seem right.
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Old 12-11-2019, 01:38 PM #15
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Originally Posted by OnlytheTruth View Post
Wilder is utter garbage and wouldn't be so highly rated if it wasn't for the WBC Title.
The boxrec computers do not account for championships in any form, yet Wilder is still number two. So clearly you are wrong.
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Old 12-11-2019, 01:47 PM #16
ShaneMosleySr ShaneMosleySr is online now
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Ring Magazine is more prestigious than the alphabet titles.

TBRB is as well because it carries on the orginal Ring Magazine rules that Oscar De La Hoya changed up.

I fail to see the flaws in a title that’s determined by the “man who beat the man” but even if there are flaws, it certainly isn’t as flawed as the alphabet titles. The IBF determined that the winner of Charles Martin and some no name whos never fought again should be heavyweight champion. The WBO thought Parker-Ruiz would determine the heavyweight championship. The WBC gave their title to the winner of Stiverne-Arreola when Wladimir Klitschko has his run.

Tyson Fury isn’t the lineal champion, that’s something he and his promoters have made up. He retired and lost the title. TBRB (and the Ring when it isn’t impacted by De La Hoya politics) keeps track of the lineal title and Fury doesn’t have it.

Fury will only win the lineal title if he beats Wilder.

The alphabet titles don’t determine the lineal champion because they’re biased and flawed.

Wilder-Joshua wouldn’t determine the heavyweight championship because Tyson Fury has a claim to being the best heavyweight in the world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boliodogs View Post
Ring is just a magazine with no power to dictate who is or is not champion except whatever power someone wants to give them. Lineal is just a mythical title that is full of flaws and holes and just like Ring titles carries no weight and means little or nothing. How can Fury possibly remain lineal champ when he left boxing for about three years? I accept that he became lineal champ by beating Wlad who was generally considered the lineal champ. But the lineal championship like any other title must be defended or lost. The champ can't just do nothing for 3 years and remain lineal champ. What kind of BS is that? Like it or not the alphabet titles are the ones who determine who is champ and have monetary value. AJ has 3 of them and Wilder has 1. Fury has no world title of any kind and is NOT the lineal champ either. One boxer must get all the belts to be the unified and lineal champ. Unless Fury defeats Wilder and becomes the WBC heavyweight champ he is not part of the lineal or unified title race. Wilder is contracted to fight Fury next. But if Wilder folught AJ instead the winner of that fight would be both the unified and the lineal heavyweight champ and Fury would still be only a top contender. Maybe Fury got robbed in his fight with Wilder and should now be the WBC champ but officially he only got a draw and is not a champion.
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Old 12-11-2019, 01:49 PM #17
ShaneMosleySr ShaneMosleySr is online now
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If you’re that upset with the Ring and TBRB for inconsistencies, you must really be upset at the IBF, WBA, WBC and WBO for all the horse***** they’ve pulled over the years, right?

TBRB and the Ring are clearly superior to those four belts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marchegiano View Post
That's good I guess.

Thing is TBRB and Ring's version of Lineal are inconsistent. Whatever rules they go by seem made up to fit the situation.


Corbett is listed by both as champion until he lost to Fitz. Fury is listed as champion until his announced retirement. Corbett's announced retirement is not reflected in either Ring or TBRB's list of champions.

Wlad having been lineal on the ground of being the consensus best in the division is fine. Wlad being lineal because he was ranked #1 and Chagaev #2 has no historical grounds whats so ever and is an affront to the meaning of the lineal title. If not for sanctioning bodies we wouldn't have ranks. The lineal title is in no way relative to any ranking board, period. Making it relative is just made up bull****. Both adhere to said made up bull****.

The way Ali is handled as a lineal champion by both TBRB and Ring is extremely inconsistent with their handling Jack Johnson and his time away from the states.

Jim Jeffries' retirement is again handled differently from both Fury's and Corbett's. To be fair to that one, Jim's retirement and return in terms of lineal vs popular sentiments at the time is confusing and steeped in racism. When he retired no one said boo like they did to Corbett, but, when he returned he returned as the champion and that's not reflected in any lists. Probably because it's confusing in list form and the only reason Jeffries was consensus champion was because of racism, even Jeffries didn't believe he had it anymore.

Joe Louis' return is again handled differently from Corbett's, Jeffries', and Fury's as he's not the champion anymore when he retires but Ezzard isn't the champion either until Charles beats Louis.



How can I take either Ring or TBRB seriously as keepers of the historical title when knowledge of that title makes me question the narrative they push? Why should I give a rats ass about Ring or TBRB if Ring and TBRB are about as consistent as fanboys?


Shouldn't the lineal title actually reflect the traditions that guided who was champion before the sanctioning bodies?

What Ring and now TBRB have created is just a list of bull**** that flip-flop of credentials and criteria to meet a made up standard that has nothing to do with traditions without bodies and has more to do with using body logic, like ranking, to validate picking one champion.

I am not opposed to the idea of one champion outside of bodies, but, be honest about the title then. It has nothing to do with Sullivan or his era and does not in anyway reflect the prestige of the past. It is simply a title that claims to not be guided by boxing politics or manipulated by their own rules.
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Old 12-11-2019, 02:06 PM #18
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At least this fight will finally resolve the questionable status of Fury's lineal title claim.

Some, like myself, believe he vacated the lineal title. Some don't.

But as long as there's a winner in this fight, everybody will agree that person is the lineal champion.
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Old 12-12-2019, 05:11 AM #19
OnlytheTruth OnlytheTruth is offline
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Originally Posted by WBC WBA IBF View Post
The boxrec computers do not account for championships in any form, yet Wilder is still number two. So clearly you are wrong.
Oh yeah, Wilder is such a skilful boxer. Thanks for your input.

The only person Wilder out-boxed was Charlie Z. And even that was touch and go.
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Old 12-12-2019, 05:12 AM #20
OnlytheTruth OnlytheTruth is offline
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Originally Posted by ShaneMosleySr View Post
Ring Magazine is more prestigious than the alphabet titles.
This, I fully agree with.
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