Robinson or Ali, who's really the greatest?

[VG_Addict]

Both Sugar Ray Robinson and Muhammad Ali have a legitimate claim to the title of, "Greatest Of All Time". Robinson is widely considered to be pound for pound the best fighter to ever lace a pair of gloves, but Ali is considered to be the best heavyweight ever, and heavyweight has always been seen as the premier division in boxing. They both have among the best resumes in boxing history, with Robinson holding wins over Lamotta, Fullmer, Basilio, and Gavilan, while Ali holds wins over Frazier, Foreman, Liston and Patterson.

Who do you think is the best ever?

[billeau2]

Both Sugar Ray Robinson and Muhammad Ali have a legitimate claim to the title of, "Greatest Of All Time". Robinson is widely considered to be pound for pound the best fighter to ever lace a pair of gloves, but Ali is considered to be the best heavyweight ever, and heavyweight has always been seen as the premier division in boxing. They both have among the best resumes in boxing history, with Robinson holding wins over Lamotta, Fullmer, Basilio, and Gavilan, while Ali holds wins over Frazier, Foreman, Liston and Patterson.

Who do you think is the best ever?

Joe Louis
Hank Armstrong
Gene Tunney

Pernell Whitaker
Muhammed Ali
Roy Jones

Hector Camacho
Ray Leonard
Telepio Stevenson


If you look at the lists above you will see some of the great fighters listed according to the following: The first category is for fighters who took at least one technical point and were outstanding with it, Louis>punching Armstrong> infatigue/inside fighting Tunney> technical ability The second column is fighters who did everything wrong (being tongue in cheek here), fighters who were athletic marvels and who could use natural talent to do things nobody else could. Ali and Jones, very similar> speed. Whitaker> reflexes.

The last column are some hybrids. Guys who have a little of both categories. Camacho had that insane speed and was an excellent technician, ditto for Leonard who had the speed and reflexes but an the learned skill of ring generalmanship and finally a guy who I think may have come as close as anyone to Robinson had he been allowed to fight professionally Telepio Stephenson...the speed of a middle weight, the flawless technique of the cuban system, the power of a heavyweight with heavy hands.

NOW all these guys are good enough and there are plenty more fighters obviously, I am just using a few for an example, that it does not matter how many things they can do well in the ring, because the thing(s) they do well they do well enough to be infallible. So, Pernell Whitaker could easily beat the more well rounded Chavez (which he did forget the stupid judges) with his defensive genius... Jones with his speed alone was able to take apart the well rounded James Toney...

What sets Sugar Ray Robinson apart, is that at any time, he could assume the skill set of any of these categories, and do so seamlessly. So he could bring fourth the punching power of Julian jackson, the natural speed of JOnes, the unorthodox ability to punch going any direction, etc etc.

[E-Thug]

Personally, Ali

[j.razor]

Funny how people that NEVER saw them fighters fight believe the media claim as them the best ever......

"Pretty Boy" Floyd "Money" Mayweather is The Best Ever
The Real "G.O.A.T."

Floyd is the ONLY man that defeated boxing, EVER!

[NChristo]

Funny how people that NEVER saw them fighters fight believe the media claim as them the best ever......

"Pretty Boy" Floyd "Money" Mayweather is The Best Ever
The Real "G.O.A.T."

Floyd is the ONLY man that defeated boxing, EVER!

Are you okay ?, do you need some kind of help ?, mental health is a real issue and shouldn't be ignored.

But really to counter your argument with your own perspective, you never saw Robinson or Ali fight, does that mean that they should be excluded in the argument for the "Best of ALL TIME" or should the debate only originate from when you was born ?.

[NChristo]

On topic though, sorry, Robinson takes it for me personally although I think there's more who should be in the deabtes than just those 2, throw in Greb, Langford and Charles, there's a very real argument for all of them, just surreal resumes.

[the mesiah]

Give me Walker Smith Jr over Cassius any day for the G.O.A.T.

[JK1700]

If we're talking skills Robinson of course. Even Ali said SRR was the greatest and his idol and that he considered himself "The Greatest" Heavyweight but that overall he would put SRR at #1. Also said Ray was the master and his idol too.

However I could see someone arguing Ali had a better "legacy". Very hard to find a definitive winner in this GOAT debate. Some people think it's all about resumes and number of fights/wins, some people think it's all about legacy, and then there are those like me who view it mainly from a skills standpoint. SRR is greater than Ali to me although Ali will always be a legend and a pioneer and in some ways bigger than just boxing because of the things he stood for and fought for.

[The Old LefHook]

Ali may have had the greatest ledger ever. There is no monster on Robinson's ledger comparable to Foreman, Liston, Frazier and Shavers for punching power.

LaMotta, Graziano, Turpijn and Fullmer were a handful all right, but perhaps not as immediately dangerous as what Ali faced. Lamotta and Fullmer were medium punchers for force. They were hard on you in a different way, that is true. Fighting them was grueling, but so was fighting Frazier.

Fullmer was like a cross between Frazier and Norton, but much dirtier. I cannot think of any middleweight who dispatches him easily. Some of the big punching middleweights that young fans probably think would take Gene out right away might be in for quite a surprise. Once Jackson or McClellan or Golovkin launched their best and Gene was still on them mauling them against the ropes, they could need a plan B. Fullmer made it tiring, if anything. He could punch hard downstairs a la Mickey Ward.

Fullmer might have been as difficult and problematic as Frazier. That's one away.

Ali faced a plethora of hugest punchers ever. This may be one hairline difference in their ledgers. We grant that Graziano and Turpin were both dangerous punchers who were no patsies when it came to taking it, either. But I do not think their ledgers suggest they are on the level of Liston, Foreman or Shavers for heavy handedness.

Ali faced a plethora of varying styles, too. But when it comes to scope of the opposition, Robinson may be in a league by himself. From maulers to technicians, none of them are even a little scarce on his record, other than the category of divisional AT P4P hardest punchers, and he might have faced one of those in Graziano. Zivic was one of the dirtiest and sneakiest ever, in a more tolerant era. Robinson faced many experienced Aces in his first three years. Later, Gavilan was one of the best boxing counter punchers of his day or in welterweight history. The kid was always a difficult puzzle.

Marty Servo is an often underrated double opponent of Robby's, it seems. I am not even sure of his style. Perhaps someone here knows. I may have read on two different occasions where he was described a boxer, and then again as a pressure fighter. Whatever the style, his record looks pretty good for an era that did not shape the records of young fighters so religiously as our own.

We know Robby faced an assortment of good maulers and pressure fighters.

Robinson had more experience but Ali had all he needed. Technically, Robinson complimented his talent with a full medicine bag of traditional knowledge, and was a harder P$P puncher.

How similar they were not just in style, is shocking. Punch absorption, stamina, will. Who could choose? The choice would be on such slim advantages that I would not trust my own judgment.

[billeau2]

Funny how people that NEVER saw them fighters fight believe the media claim as them the best ever......

"Pretty Boy" Floyd "Money" Mayweather is The Best Ever
The Real "G.O.A.T."

Floyd is the ONLY man that defeated boxing, EVER!

You know you might want to invest some time and look through Youtube. Not only are there plenty of these fights that one NEVER Could see, but commentary, comparison, etc.