How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[TheAuthority]

There's plenty evidence...

Great ... What is this evidence?

I genuinely want to see it. I have had a keen interest in arguments for and againsts the existence of God for several years - I have yet to come across a single argument that has any merit.

Usually people don't wanna see it because it would lead them to face painful truths about their own life.

Projection?

In reality, it is the religious who have to face upto to the painful truth - heaven does not exist.

[squealpiggy]

There's plenty evidence... Usually people don't wanna see it because it would lead them to face painful truths about their own life.

What evidence?

[Nick Name]

What an absolutely stupid leap of illogic.

What a pathetic try to insult me.
That's not illogic at all: is the Universe eternal (it always existed)? Or did it start at some point out of nothing? Did it start with a giant explosion? What caused it?

I think you're reaching somewhat if you have to go back to the 17th century to find a scientist to misquote. The short version is - Lavoisier is wrong. "Something" comes from "nothing" all the time

Give me an example, of something in Nature that is created out of nothing, i.e. it appears from nowhere.

[Nick Name]

Great ... What is this evidence?

I genuinely want to see it. I have had a keen interest in arguments for and againsts the existence of God for several years - I have yet to come across a single argument that has any merit.

You came across loads of good arguments, you just skipped them because you thought you knew better.

Projection?

In reality, it is the religious who have to face upto to the painful truth - heaven does not exist.

That can't be painful, at most it could be a sad truth. If I discovered that Heaven does not exist (how could I discover that anyway? When I'm already dead? If there isn't any Heaven, what's next then? Nothing? When I'm nothing I can't feel pain...) that would make me sad, not aching: there's a substantial and profound difference between sadness and pain... You have no real clue of what you're telling me: you're just parroting the opposite of what I'm saying, instead of giving me back some truth, like I'm doing now. Be careful, I'm not mad at you, this is just a statement.
The pain I was talking about regards the truth about our existence, about accepting the story of our life: who we really are, what we do, what happens in our life, that's it.

[The Noose]

There's plenty evidence... Usually people don't wanna see it because it would lead them to face painful truths about their own life.

What painful truths would that be?

If u rely on faith as the foundation of accepting somethings existence then isnt it only reasonable that u can be extremely sceptical about its existence?

Im also curious about all this evidence.


*prays for no 'God of the gaps' theories*

[squealpiggy]

What a pathetic try to insult me.
That's not illogic at all: is the Universe eternal (it always existed)? Or did it start at some point out of nothing? Did it start with a giant explosion? What caused it?

I will just restate your stupid illogical argument here: "If the universe is eternal (sic) then that means god exists". No it doesn't, not in the slightest, not by the most tenuous stretch of logic. If things have always existed and had no beginnings then that doesn't lead to an omnipotent personal deity of any kind.

Give me an example, of something in Nature that is created out of nothing, i.e. it appears from nowhere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_fluctuation

[cupocity303]

God is a made up word, for the people, by the people. Deal with it.

Whatever force there might be out there, that is the starting-origin point and jump starter of everything, shouldn't even be called God, Creator or anything that revolves around it being a personality or person of sorts.

And if there isn't a singular eternal force that had no beginning, that's the cause of everything that exists as we know it, and the Universe itself is just timeless, then Universe shouldn't be referred to as God either. It's pointless.

Be reasonable, take up the Philosophy of I-dont-know. That's real humility, not being submissive to a Deity. That doesn't mean to stick your head in the sand, and give up. Keep plucking away as most scientists do, looking for answers or The Answer. Simply 1 + 1 = 2 + 2 = 4 + 4 = 8 + 8 = 16 + 16, etc, etc, etc,. There may be an end to this or it may be infinite, but you keep plucking away.

But what you don't do is, 1 + 1 = 2 + 2 = 4 + 4 = 8 + 8 = GOD. Jumping to conclusions.

This is lazy & stupid. I don't mind simple, every day people who privately believe in God, especially when one of their loved ones dies. And they like to think that they're still alive, somewhere in afterlife. But to the ones who seriously give this some thought and debate/argue about it, it's inexcusable. It was excusable thousands of years ago, when people didn't know better, and you could light a fire and make them believe that you were a powerful Deity, but not in Today's age, with everything we know and continue to try & learn more about our surroundings.

My two cents, been a while since I commented on Religion.

[Nick Name]

God is a made up word, for the people, by the people. Deal with it.

Whatever force there might be out there, that is the starting-origin point and jump starter of everything, shouldn't even be called God, Creator or anything that revolves around it being a personality or person of sorts.

And if there isn't a singular eternal force that had no beginning, that's the cause of everything that exists as we know it, and the Universe itself is just timeless, then Universe shouldn't be referred to as God either. It's pointless.

Be reasonable, take up the Philosophy of I-dont-know. That's real humility, not being submissive to a Deity. That doesn't mean to stick your head in the sand, and give up. Keep plucking away as most scientists do, looking for answers or The Answer. Simply 1 + 1 = 2 + 2 = 4 + 4 = 8 + 8 = 16 + 16, etc, etc, etc,. There may be an end to this or it may be infinite, but you keep plucking away.

But what you don't do is, 1 + 1 = 2 + 2 = 4 + 4 = 8 + 8 = GOD. Jumping to conclusions.

This is lazy & stupid. I don't mind simple, every day people who privately believe in God, especially when one of their loved ones dies. And they like to think that they're still alive, somewhere in afterlife. But to the ones who seriously give this some thought and debate/argue about it, it's inexcusable. It was excusable thousands of years ago, when people didn't know better, and you could light a fire and make them believe that you were a powerful Deity, but not in Today's age, with everything we know and continue to try & learn more about our surroundings.

My two cents, been a while since I commented on Religion.

And could have been a little more without any damage.

[Nick Name]

What painful truths would that be?

If u rely on faith as the foundation of accepting somethings existence then isnt it only reasonable that u can be extremely sceptical about its existence?

Im also curious about all this evidence.

If you're talking about scientific evidence, I could call the thousands spontaneous healings in Lourdes and the people that could testify them, but most people has to live personally those experiences to believe. Apart from that, I don't recall any scientific evidence of God's existence. I just believe in it, as I believe in Love: can you touch love? Where's the scientific evidence that your woman loves you and has never or will never betray you? Where's the scientific evidence that you are happy? YOU must find out by yourself. I'm not gonna change your diapers, buddy, nor I'm your spiritual guide, so stop pulling my leg with this evidence bull****.

[Nick Name]

I will just restate your stupid illogical argument here: "If the universe is eternal (sic) then that means god exists". No it doesn't, not in the slightest, not by the most tenuous stretch of logic. If things have always existed and had no beginnings then that doesn't lead to an omnipotent personal deity of any kind.

I was talking about the concept of eternity which goes beyond our comprehension: everything human has an end. Whatever has not a beginning and an end (it' eternal) for us it's impossible to understand. It's a mystery. Just as God is.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_fluctuation[/QUOTE]
So what? Quantum are a quantity of energy that comes from "nothing" (and disappears afetr a while), just about me and you: before we were born we were nothing: then sperm and ovulus join and something happens: we build up a unique personality out of nothing.
Anyway the conservation of energy in time is a well defined concept even in quantum mechanics, and your example doesn't eclude in any way the existence of God.