Who was a better role model for Black people? Louis or Ali

[kendom]

I apologize for limiting it to black people I guess I was still emotionally attached to the documentary, please ignore the thread title

[lightsout_finit]

Jesus Christ, from top to bottom both of your condescending shitty post were not only wrong on the premise but they lead you to your ad hominem attack.

Attack a person's character rather than debate the point? Check

Establish your knowledge as superior to mine with your "kid" and "casual fan" remarks? check

Actually argue the point I was trying to make? nope
(which by the way southpaw stinger did perfectly)

and at the end of it all you still have the nerve to tell me to "go learn something before posting in the history section

I didn't compare Ali to Hitler nor did I demonize him, I was showing how speaking your mind doesn't necessarily make you a good role model by giving you an example of another historic figure that also spoke his mind.

how hard is that to understand? I would expect a boxing scholar like yourself to be sharp enough to get an analogy made by a "casual fan" like myself.



btw didn't Muhammad Ali beat his wife publicly because her skirt was too short?

Attack your character rather than debate the point??
You didn't make any point kid.

Yes I Established my knowledge is better than yours....
Cos it is!

You sound like a kid losing a school debate not someone who has a passion for boxing.

Your analogy was poor. Why would you need to point out all people who speak their minds aren't role models??? We're not talking about all people
just Ali And Louis. I think everyone on here is well informed enough to know what Ali was like back then and what he stood for. So there was absolutely no reason for you to make your child like point was there?? What are you going to enlighten us with next?? The sky is blue??
And you called me condescending......... lol

unless your just trying to associate Ali with something/someone negative.
The topic is role models and you brought up Hitler......


Interesting how you didn't respond to anything i said about Louis image
being manufactured and claim i didn't debate the point.

Ali was a wife beater huh.........
Louis was a junky and a womaniser.......

[Barn]

Actually, wasn't the story that Ali was slapping around his wife when Ray Robinson tried to jump in to calm things down, when Ali just threw Ray out of the way and said "Ray, you're just a welterweight"?

That's the one I had in mind.

[Slip Stream]

Just out of curiosity I wonder how many of those that took the poll were "white" and how many were "black?"

[#1Assassin]

ali hands down.

louis was a great fighter and the first black HW champion that white america liked, which helped black ppl. but the reason white america liked him was he played the "good negro" and acted like they wanted. he did that bcuz his own success was more important than standing up for his ppl. thats not a good role model for black ppl.

ali was the oposite, he didnt let white ppl hold him down or tell him to act a certain way. he wasnt willing to be a house n.igga, even when it meant giving up his career. through his actions black ppl all over the world finally realized that they were just as good as whites and didnt need to be what white america wanted them to be. he spoke for himself, he didnt need white ppl to do it for him. he celebrated his wins, he didnt let white ppl tell him not to bcuz it might upset some racist redneck.

ali taught millions of black ppl to stand up and be proud of themselves while louis taught them to sit down and be quiet while mr boss man was talking.

[Barn]

ali hands down.

louis was a great fighter and the first black HW champion that white america liked, which helped black ppl. but the reason white america liked him was he played the "good negro" and acted like they wanted. he did that bcuz his own success was more important than standing up for his ppl. thats not a good role model for black ppl.

ali was the oposite, he didnt let white ppl hold him down or tell him to act a certain way. he wasnt willing to be a house n.igga, even when it meant giving up his career. through his actions black ppl all over the world finally realized that they were just as good as whites and didnt need to be what white america wanted them to be. he spoke for himself, he didnt need white ppl to do it for him. he celebrated his wins, he didnt let white ppl tell him not to bcuz it might upset some racist redneck.

ali taught millions of black ppl to stand up and be proud of themselves while louis taught them to sit down and be quiet while mr boss man was talking.

Louis only did all those rules so he was kept in favour so he could get a title shot. When he made the big stakes he dropped that act.

[Slip Stream]

It’s funny how some folks went to personal flaws, as if that is a reason to disqualify someone from greatness. The "truth" is never as aggrandized as we imagine it, our truths are often more subtle and human. Countless figures that we hold up could not bear up under a moral scrutiny. Most people’s lives are infinitely more complex than a splash of images, a fight well fought, or a sound bite at the end of the day that goes sliding mindlessly down some stiff’s teleprompter.

So the "real" Ali may disappoint me in some areas, but it is the fact that we rise that gives me succor. We are a resilient people, the human race; we find ways to be successful even when circumstances clearly say otherwise. The Ali that matters to me is the gleaming god, the defiant one, and the one that has always held his head up high.

"To escape criticism - do nothing, say nothing, be nothing."

~Elbert Hubbard~

[pwilky]

It would have been very interesting if their birthdays were reversed!

Would Ali have had the courage to stand up for civil rights in the manner he did a generation earlier?

Would Louis have been content to play the "uncle Tom" role with the Civil Rights Movement in full flight?

Despite abhoring the emphasis he placed on religion, I, personally, have a grudging admiration for Ali the person, while am ambivalent towards Louis' character.

[Barn]

It’s funny how some folks went to personal flaws, as if that is a reason to disqualify someone from greatness. The "truth" is never as aggrandized as we imagine it, our truths are often more subtle and human. Countless figures that we hold up could not bear up under a moral scrutiny. Most people’s lives are infinitely more complex than a splash of images, a fight well fought, or a sound bite at the end of the day that goes sliding mindlessly down some stiff’s teleprompter.

So the "real" Ali may disappoint me in some areas, but it is the fact that we rise that gives me succor. We are a resilient people, the human race; we find ways to be successful even when circumstances clearly say otherwise. The Ali that matters to me is the gleaming god, the defiant one, and the one that has always held his head up high.

"To escape criticism - do nothing, say nothing, be nothing."

~Elbert Hubbard~

How's it funny that we result to personal flaws when comparing them as people...

[Slip Stream]

How's it funny that we result to personal flaws when comparing them as people...

Dunno, maybe its just from the way I see it.