Who's greater in your book: Marciano or Ward

[Chollo Vista]

Personally, I'd say Marciano as far as legacy goes, but let's compare resumes:

Marciano - Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles x2, Joe Walcott x2 and Joe Louis.

Ward - Kovalev x2, Froch, Kessler, Abraham, Dawson, Rodriguez, Green, Barrera

If I'm leaving someone off Marciano or Ward's record that should be on there, please explain who and why.

[Chollo Vista]

Would you say Kovalev is a HOF'er?

[Nay_Sayer]

Ward, easily. Ward fought more top guys who were closer to their primes..

[TonyGe]

I'm going with Marciano based on my impression that at the same size Ward wouldn't have the firepower to hurt Marciano. If he tried to play dirty Marciano would match him in that department. He wouldn't wait for the judge to do something like Kessler did he would take matters into his own hands.

[Marchegiano]

****ell, Matthews, LaStarza, Layne in that order.


People leave off Rock's non-championship peer group because he beat every contender before he fought the champion and while he was champion they beat the **** out of one another until the generation was post prime.


Let's start with Layne. With Louis out of the way it was obvious Charles and Walcott would have their struggle for supremacy, but, what people wanted to know from source like Ring was who would be the next great champion. Nat Fleischer was still alive and in control of Ring, Ring was at its height, he chose Rex Layne.

I'm not saying Rex is a great win because of this, but, usually, when a great champion exposes a major hypejob of the era that hypejob is included in the champ's resume. Unless he's Marciano. Frank Bruno isn't exactly a great name on Tyson's resume, but, he is a name. I don't honestly believe Rex or Frank were hypejobs, just not as good as people thought, or worse, as good as people thought but the competition has since gotten better than was ever expected.

Rex does have some names, a reason Nat backed him, but, I personally don't think that's even needed. He is the man everyone was watching, Marciano kicked his ass....what else do we need?

LaStarza ia a man who came out of the same general area as Marciano, which is why they fight so early in their careers; they were in competition for the local audience support. LaStarza was much more famous than Marciano much more quickly because Roland pioneered a technique still employed by great defensive fighters today. Check your history, look at what films you can, there was defensive HWs before LaStarza, did any of them ever use the ropes like Ali? LaStarza is the man who brought using the rop[es to absorb energy and elbows to absorb impact damage...yeah, rope-a-dope. First man to do it. Of course he was big ****s. Of course no one saw a way for him to get whooped....until he did.

Roland too has names, Rex is one of them, but again, I don't think it's needed. He's a pioneer, that's why he was big ****s, not because who but how.

Matthews is another story, he was big on the west coast during an era when the west coast did not ****ing matter at all. He takes some early loses, 3, when he's young and inexperienced and matched against men with 100+ victories. He takes his loses, learns, gets revenge and hands his conqueror a few defeats then moves up to HW, goes unbeaten at HW, 55+ win streak, gets a title elim, Marciano whoops his ass, ****ell comes into play and Kid just can not accept Don has his number, three more loses to ****ell, three very avoidable loses if Kid was a ninny or well controlled. Total record? 90-7.....90-7, top ranked, earned his position through the ranks, continued to beat top ranked HWs, hit his wall against one ATG and one new to the scene he was ill prepared for.

Finally we have ****ell. I wholeheartedly believe ****ell is the champion if Marciano did not exist. ****ell moved up to HW because of a medical issue. He struggled at LHW but was only there a short time, he's really a MW with a condition that forced him to HW. He goes unbeaten in the British HW ranks, he kicks Matthews ass, who had already lost to Marciano but had since gone 4-0 against top competition to earn another shot. Kid needed to get past the British sensation, ****ell, he didn't. Then Don went on to kick LaStarza's ass. Roland was coming off the through the ropes Marciano fight. His elbows were shattered by the Rock but his spirit was broken by the Don.

He even gave Marciano a good fight, roughed him up a bit. It was almost like Wilder-Fury in that what people never did was bully Marciano, so Don tried, and it worked real well for him. Much better than boxing would have. Marciano is no Wilder though, and unfortunately for Don the Rock was able to adapt.


****ell- Peer, has a resume himself

Matthews- Peer, has a resume himself

LaStarza- Peer, pioneering technical master, has a serviceable record what with the lowrys and ginos and such

Layne- Peer, hyped to be king by the biggest source for media of his day, decent record




Another way of saying it, using only resume:

Layne beats Walcott in 50

Marciano beats LaStarza in 50

Walcott beats Charles for the title in 51

Layne loses to Marciano 51

Matthews loses to Marciano 52

Walcott loses to Marciano 52

Layne loses to Matthews 52

Layne beats Charles in 52

Layne loses to LaStarza 53

Walcot is retired by Rock in 53

LaStarza is sent through the ropes in 53

****ell beats Matthews in 54

Charles is beaten by Marciano in 54, twice.

****ell beats LaStarza in 54

Marciano KOs ****ell in 55




Point is ****ell, Matthews, LaStarza, and Layne are all resume names.

[Thraxox]

If Marciano fought today, he'll be a LHW the size of Beterbiev and I'll take Marciano to KO Ward in 10.

[Black Jesus]

Well, I would say Ward faced younger guys in their primes,
Marciano faced guys who had accomplished more in their careers.

What ward doesn't get enough credit for is always dominating guys who were favored to beat him

Marciano on the other hand came out on top of more brawls and grueling battles.

All things considered, i pick Ward

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

Ward for me... just a better fighter IMO. Effectively cleaned out two divisions also beat most of his better opponents in their primes.

[boliodogs]

Marciano is greater by 10 miles in my opinion. I don't think Ward was a great fighter. He was a good fighter and as dirty a fighter as they come. Most of his fights were more wrestling and holding while hitting than great boxing and he was awful to watch for me anyway.I think his wins over Kovalev were tainted. I thought Kovalev beat him in the first fight. Ward low blowed the hell out of him in the 2nd fight and got a KO win instead warnings and points taken away. The ref was blind and bias.

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

Would you say Kovalev is a HOF'er?

I thought he beat Ward in the first fight so I’d probably say yes. But just looking at it in terms of results I’m not sure he has the resume. Tough one...