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Old 07-04-2019, 09:15 AM #21
them_apples them_apples is offline
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Is this a joke?


I remember George's comeback. while in retrospect it's easy to appreciate the accomplishment, it definitely had the feel of a circus sideshow. George's competition was carefully chosen. His celebrity ensured he could pick who he wanted.

There's nothing really exceptional about his competition: the fights w/ Qawi, Cooper and Cooney were travesties that should have never been made. They make Hopkins-Jones II forgivable.

His come-from-behind win against Moorer... but that's exactly what it was, a KO win to salvage a fight he was losing to Michael Moorer.

He lost to Tommy Morrison.

And didn't win a round against Holyfield.


So tell me, where are all these talented opponents that you're talking about? He finally tamed his wild side. But everyone know that his return wouldn't have lasted long if he'd attempted the brawling style of the 70's.

And yet we're to believe he beats the finest pure-boxer (and much bigger man) that the Heavyweight division has ever seen. enjoy that joint, bro.
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Is this a joke? Fury is the finest pure boxer the heavyweight division has ever seen? The competition is probably at its weakest of all time in the history of the sport. Yeah Foreman lost to Morrison but that Morrison would have knocked Fury out. Don't pretend that Wilder is better than a prime Morrison.

I don't think you realize how low level these heavyweights are. Wlad was never good, but he stuck around long enough fighting garbage competition that it somehow now holds merit when someone beats the 40 year old version on him.

The Holyfield that Fought foreman would have knocked Wlad and Fury out in the same night.
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Old 07-04-2019, 09:59 AM #22
Rusty Tromboni Rusty Tromboni is offline
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Is this a joke? Fury is the finest pure boxer the heavyweight division has ever seen? The competition is probably at its weakest of all time in the history of the sport. Yeah Foreman lost to Morrison but that Morrison would have knocked Fury out. Don't pretend that Wilder is better than a prime Morrison.

I don't think you realize how low level these heavyweights are. Wlad was never good, but he stuck around long enough fighting garbage competition that it somehow now holds merit when someone beats the 40 year old version on him.

The Holyfield that Fought foreman would have knocked Wlad and Fury out in the same night.
LOL. No. Not at all. When you find yourself in a muddy ditch, you don't get yourself out by digging the ditch deeper.

PED, specifically steroid, use was probably active by the late 60's, but was certainly at it's zenith in the 90's. I'd love for you to demonstrate what skills 90's Hw's had that you see absent today. Holyfield might be the most complete and sound Heavyweight we've ever seen, but he often fought the wrong fight. He was certainly undersized even then.

I won't pretend that recent Heavyweights are perfect. But they ARE Heavyweights. The larger the man, the more limited he'll be physically. In fact, that seems to be a theme of nature: we don't expect Great Danes to do parlor tricks like grandmom's poodle. But grandmom's poodle can't bring down a boar.

I am not trying to rag on you. But this isn't really an argument someone who understands Boxing would even entertain. I would love to provide evidence of how post-Holmes Heavyweights were better than the recent champions. Break down the footage, if you are going to make that wild a claim.
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Old 07-04-2019, 12:39 PM #23
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LOL. No. Not at all. When you find yourself in a muddy ditch, you don't get yourself out by digging the ditch deeper.

PED, specifically steroid, use was probably active by the late 60's, but was certainly at it's zenith in the 90's. I'd love for you to demonstrate what skills 90's Hw's had that you see absent today. Holyfield might be the most complete and sound Heavyweight we've ever seen, but he often fought the wrong fight. He was certainly undersized even then.

I won't pretend that recent Heavyweights are perfect. But they ARE Heavyweights. The larger the man, the more limited he'll be physically. In fact, that seems to be a theme of nature: we don't expect Great Danes to do parlor tricks like grandmom's poodle. But grandmom's poodle can't bring down a boar.

I am not trying to rag on you. But this isn't really an argument someone who understands Boxing would even entertain. I would love to provide evidence of how post-Holmes Heavyweights were better than the recent champions. Break down the footage, if you are going to make that wild a claim.
you must be some kind of new level of idiot not to understand that the proportional difference between HWs 3 inches inches different in height aren't at all the same as that between a poodle and a great dane.

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Old 07-04-2019, 01:04 PM #24
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Nineties Foreman was slow and cumbersome. Easy to hit, he was a stationary target. You only lost to him if you stood right in front of him and exchanged punches. As much as it pains me to say it, Fury would outwork him and be too hard to hit clean for George. Fury by UD.
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Old 07-08-2019, 01:50 PM #25
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The thing to remember about George’s comeback was that he had loads of ring iq - Archie Moore was there, was hanging around the comeback giving his knowledge to George, so you’d be goin up against those teachings. That said, the way Fury got up vs Wilder reminded me of how Holmes got up vs Tyson, Fury is tough. One of those dudes you gotta pound to dust to beat, he gets knocked down and starts boxing better instinctually, he’s like a big James Toney in that sense. Some guys get nailed and look for a good place to lay down, Tyson is one of those dudes who will get up and fight for his life. Nightmare matchup but you’d have to fight him, just for the honor! I hope he does stick a around. I think he has a good future fighting because of How good he is in both stances, and how he likes to train. Guys like that, they last, and he’s the first of his kind - huge.

It’s not good to be a predictor but we are just talking sport here, my opinion is that
Older Foreman would’ve lost a decision to Fury. I don’t see him getting ko’d, George boxed Holyfield bravely and got nailed quite a bit. Resilient.

All that said, George would probably do some veteran tactic to slow Fury down with a quadriceps punch maybe and I know George would touch Fury’s short rib and kidney with that digging right hook George always threw.

Fury respects George historically

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Old 07-21-2019, 02:13 AM #26
them_apples them_apples is offline
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LOL. No. Not at all. When you find yourself in a muddy ditch, you don't get yourself out by digging the ditch deeper.

PED, specifically steroid, use was probably active by the late 60's, but was certainly at it's zenith in the 90's. I'd love for you to demonstrate what skills 90's Hw's had that you see absent today. Holyfield might be the most complete and sound Heavyweight we've ever seen, but he often fought the wrong fight. He was certainly undersized even then.

I won't pretend that recent Heavyweights are perfect. But they ARE Heavyweights. The larger the man, the more limited he'll be physically. In fact, that seems to be a theme of nature: we don't expect Great Danes to do parlor tricks like grandmom's poodle. But grandmom's poodle can't bring down a boar.

I am not trying to rag on you. But this isn't really an argument someone who understands Boxing would even entertain. I would love to provide evidence of how post-Holmes Heavyweights were better than the recent champions. Break down the footage, if you are going to make that wild a claim.
I get it in your advanced age you think you know more about boxing then me, but you are dead wrong - if only you knew the amount of books and videos I’ve burned through over the past 10 years. Fury only looks crafty against garbage fighters. He would get set up and knocked out by even a 90s foreman. Fury can’t break an egg and foreman is nearly indestructible and never short of willpower. He’s got 12 rounds to put fury to sleep and he would do it. And yes Michael m would knock them both out as well. Wilder isn’t even a good amateur. You wouldn’t hear about him in the old days, he’s a bum. He can’t even throw a proper jab, his jab is an imitation of something he saw on YouTube.

The problem here is most people are comparing styles and not level of competition. Just because you box and move doesn’t mean you can beat a fighter 10x better than you who happens to struggle with movers. You’ll just stick around a bit longer than people expect.

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Old 07-21-2019, 08:52 AM #27
Rusty Tromboni Rusty Tromboni is offline
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I get it in your advanced age you think you know more about boxing then me, but you are dead wrong - if only you knew the amount of books and videos Iíve burned through over the past 10 years. Fury only looks crafty against garbage fighters. He would get set up and knocked out by even a 90s foreman. Fury canít break an egg and foreman is nearly indestructible and never short of willpower. Heís got 12 rounds to put fury to sleep and he would do it. And yes Michael m would knock them both out as well. Wilder isnít even a good amateur. You wouldnít hear about him in the old days, heís a bum. He canít even throw a proper jab, his jab is an imitation of something he saw on YouTube.

The problem here is most people are comparing styles and not level of competition. Just because you box and move doesnít mean you can beat a fighter 10x better than you who happens to struggle with movers. Youíll just stick around a bit longer than people expect.

Dude if you are going to make outlandish claims you should be ready to support them.

How does Michael Moorer KO Fury and Wilder!?!? Break that down for us.
I was very very disappointed in how his career went. Pittsburgh deserved another Boxing Legened after sooo many decades. It just didn't happen. I would give that guy a great chance again a lot of guys who primed around 200 pounds: Dempsey, Tunney, Louis, Marciano, Patterson, Quarry, Holyfield (Cw), Jones, Byrd, Usyk. All dream fights. I am willing to admit, though, that Moorer would probably find a way to lose.

I definitely won't say some wild ass shyte like "he Ko's them both." How!?!?!?!?
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What makes Jimmy Young better than Fury? Please explain in detail. The footage is damming. But maybe you are seeing something we don't? He's half Fury's size, but moves much slower and more predictably. He is painfully limited. But George couldn't figure him out.

Wilder is a side-conversation, but as to him not having a jab: neither did Mayweather.
Hell, Tommy Loughran had an amazing jab and revolutionized Boxing... but he did it because he lost his ability to throw power punches. Not drop The Hammer of THor, a la Wilder, just regular right hands.
Wilder doesn't have a jab, or fight like Finito Lopez, because he does not NEED to. Yes, it would be nice if he and Fury were more polished/complete fighters. But they are a level above what we have become accustomed to from Heavyweights. Appreciate it. Immensely.

Seriously, after the over-the-top claims you have made, I think you finally found a use for all that time you've dedicated to Boxing over the years. Prove us wrong. Show the world we're blind to reality.
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Old 07-21-2019, 09:07 AM #28
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Dude if you are going to make outlandish claims you should be ready to support them.

How does Michael Moorer KO Fury and Wilder!?!? Break that down for us.
I was very very disappointed in how his career went. Pittsburgh deserved another Boxing Legened after sooo many decades. It just didn't happen. I would give that guy a great chance again a lot of guys who primed around 200 pounds: Dempsey, Tunney, Louis, Marciano, Patterson, Quarry, Holyfield (Cw), Jones, Byrd, Usyk. All dream fights. I am willing to admit, though, that Moorer would probably find a way to lose.

I definitely won't say some wild ass shyte like "he Ko's them both." How!?!?!?!?
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What makes Jimmy Young better than Fury? Please explain in detail. The footage is damming. But maybe you are seeing something we don't? He's half Fury's size, but moves much slower and more predictably. He is painfully limited. But George couldn't figure him out.

Wilder is a side-conversation, but as to him not having a jab: neither did Mayweather.
Hell, Tommy Loughran had an amazing jab and revolutionized Boxing... but he did it because he lost his ability to throw power punches. Not drop The Hammer of THor, a la Wilder, just regular right hands.
Wilder doesn't have a jab, or fight like Finito Lopez, because he does not NEED to. Yes, it would be nice if he and Fury were more polished/complete fighters. But they are a level above what we have become accustomed to from Heavyweights. Appreciate it. Immensely.

Seriously, after the over-the-top claims you have made, I think you finally found a use for all that time you've dedicated to Boxing over the years. Prove us wrong. Show the world we're blind to reality.
Ok a break down to come.
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Old 07-21-2019, 02:14 PM #29
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Ok a break down to come.
- -Rubbing hands in glee.

Boys, this gonna get gooder'n than a barrel of monkeys!
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Old 07-21-2019, 03:19 PM #30
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I think it shows intelligence that you both seized on Michael Moore. A very underrated fighter with all the ring smarts and potential in the world and...who had that knack for finding a way to lose in all cases. Teddy Atlas tried brilliantly and got Moore to a point where people could see something the fighters at Kronk's gym had seen for years...Moore was actually a certified Alpha among that crown, no small achievement by any stretch.

There are fighters like this..I remember lamenting such to our dear comrade Ray Corso... Ike ieubuchi, And the Atomic Bull who Mike Tyson would allegedly cede the floor to. Credit to Atlas who poured every once into Moore and showed us what potential there was against Holyfield. I don't remember if Moore was even with Atlas at that time but Atlas did a lot of work on dealing with Moore's Psyche.

So could Moore KO Fury? IMO no way no how, not in this or th six worlds of the Buddha. If I am really feeling it for Moore? I would place him on a short list of the 10 greatest light heavies. Could see him among Maxi Rosenbloom, Billy C, perhaps above Foster, below Tunney, Spinks and Archie Moore.

Them Apples you are one of the better posters here but I have to take issue with your assesment of Fury. Its just off imo. Fury actually has a decent KO percentage. Most big guys are not big hitters actually... Fury has footwork and set up and is a very accurate hitter. I don't think second coming of George could touch him. Moore was a flawed hero...The very definition of a tragic figure: The fighting man who has it all, not Enkido, but Gilgamesh, technically versed and able...but for one enemy that cannot be overcome: his own self.

If Moore had paid attention, not allowed himself to the possibility he would have won that fight. And in his second fight with the Bastard Maker? he was so unprepared. Its almost as if he didn't believe he deserved to win.
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