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Old 10-15-2019, 06:32 PM #21
DeeMoney DeeMoney is offline
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Interested to hear opinions on Sam Langford, in regards to this question. Within a two-and-a-half year span he fought Joe Gans and Jack Johnson (so he clearly made his way up and down through various weights). And he was well known for being a tank and having great power.

But did he carry that power throughout weight classes? Even if he didn't have it at both ends of the spectrum in which he fought, carrying it through those mid weights would be impressive.
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Old 10-15-2019, 08:49 PM #22
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- -With Sam it was a steady trend up in wt as he started earning $$$.

With Gans he had to make wt, but for JJOHNSON, he fought at his natural street wt of 150 that only grew as he matured.

I speculate he was best at 170, but given the $$$ he was making at heavy, even that wt grew. Even at a tubby 200+ he could handle most any fighter, so wts were but a piffling thing for him.

In short, he ate, drank, and fought to his hearts content constraining limits be damned.
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Old 10-17-2019, 06:44 PM #23
Rusty Tromboni Rusty Tromboni is offline
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Originally Posted by OctoberRed View Post
That's beyond a murderer's row.
Yeah, but he fought most of them after he lost the belt.

Apparently he wanted nothing to do with Burley, and only faced Zivic after being backed into a corner.

He gets credit for winning championships in three different divisions, but he had been a Lightweight for several years before challenging for the Featherweight crown. Against Petey Sarron, no less - the guy who won the belt by avenging his loss to an old Freddie Miller. If Armstrong were really a great Featherweight, why did he wait until Miller's time had clearly passed before fighting for that belt.

What DOES impress me about Armstrong, though, are his wins over Garcia. First at Welterweight, then again at Middleweight. Garcia actually beat Apostoli. I dunno the back story to that. Or if there even is one. If it's a legit win, it speaks highly of Garcia.

for what it's worth, Conn seems to have claimed that Apostoli would have beaten Burley.
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Old 10-17-2019, 07:25 PM #24
Rusty Tromboni Rusty Tromboni is offline
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Originally Posted by DeeMoney View Post
Interested to hear opinions on Sam Langford, in regards to this question. Within a two-and-a-half year span he fought Joe Gans and Jack Johnson (so he clearly made his way up and down through various weights). And he was well known for being a tank and having great power.

But did he carry that power throughout weight classes? Even if he didn't have it at both ends of the spectrum in which he fought, carrying it through those mid weights would be impressive.
He grew up is what happened. Lots of fighters cover many divisions over a short number of years. It's simple physical maturation. It happens in High School sports all the time. My brother grew 9" one summer. Over the next several years he very slowly grew three more. He jumped 4 weight classes in wrestling when he suddenly filled out.

If Langford came of age today, he'd go Pro after his growth spurt had completed. And since we live in the age of Titans, he'd be confined to fighting in his own division - Light Heavyweight.

Really, Langford was even his era's biggest puncher. Sure, the most prolific. And the largest of the big punchers. But Ketchel might have been his superior. And McGovern clearly was.

McLarnin's power takes a steaming hot shyte on all of theirs. Jimmy KO'd the legendary Corbett 3 in one round. His power earned him wins over Canzoneri and Ross - two of the 5 best chins to ever grace the sport. Leonard was past his best, but he comeback was far more impressive than Ray Leonard's or Foreman's - he had picked up right from where he left off when he was P4P King. He had an easier time of Ambers than Armstrong did. He was just 16 when he defeated Fidel LaBarba.

Again, he didn't need to fight for 60 years to pull this all off. And he was doing it against world class opposition. Sam Langford and Freinds were that generations Kimbo Slice and bob Sapp. It's actually kinda hard to watch, unless you go into it looking for a laugh.


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Originally Posted by QueensburyRules View Post
- -With Sam it was a steady trend up in wt as he started earning $$$.

With Gans he had to make wt, but for JJOHNSON, he fought at his natural street wt of 150 that only grew as he matured.

I speculate he was best at 170, but given the $$$ he was making at heavy, even that wt grew. Even at a tubby 200+ he could handle most any fighter, so wts were but a piffling thing for him.

In short, he ate, drank, and fought to his hearts content constraining limits be damned.
Yeah, he was clearly hitting his stride north of Middleweight. Whether he was a Light Heavyweight or Heavyweight is hard to say. And it really doesn't matter. He was often undersized, but his power and defensive prowess more than compensated for his lack of size. Guys like toney and Byrd today show that, even without widow-maker punches and less than ideal fitness, sound Boxers can defeat bigger men by exploiting their size.

I don't think anyone would say Toney and Byrd were as good as Buddy McGirt, let alone Sweet Pea. And that's how we should feel about Sam, remembering that in his day guys like McVea, Johnson, Jeanette and Co. were the Titans of their day.

Really, who's Langford's best win? Norfolk? O'Brien was finished and undersized. Flowers was green. Gans, as ever, had an alibi. All the big uglies were just that: nothing more thn big, and their skills were ugly.

Last edited by Rusty Tromboni; 10-17-2019 at 07:41 PM.
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Old 10-18-2019, 05:36 AM #25
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- -The first two Wills fights.

Old and more than half blind, Sam knocked out Wills.

You could say old and blind knocking Dempseys sparmate, the supersized Godfrey was his 2nd biggest win.

Collectively has to be the extensive Jeannette series as both in their primes, esp when he BTFO out of Joe in Paris for a share of the heavy title.

Joe and Harry always said Sam was the best of their shared eras, their respect mirroring the concensus general public.
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Old 10-18-2019, 11:07 PM #26
Rusty Tromboni Rusty Tromboni is offline
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Originally Posted by QueensburyRules View Post
- -The first two Wills fights.

Old and more than half blind, Sam knocked out Wills.

You could say old and blind knocking Dempseys sparmate, the supersized Godfrey was his 2nd biggest win.

Collectively has to be the extensive Jeannette series as both in their primes, esp when he BTFO out of Joe in Paris for a share of the heavy title.

Joe and Harry always said Sam was the best of their shared eras, their respect mirroring the concensus general public.
That's fair.

Jeanette, Godfrey and Wills were big men and young. They might've been clumsy and primitive, but they were still plenty dangerous.
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Old 10-30-2019, 05:19 AM #27
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can't remember what fight it was I was watching a few wks ago, but I remember hearing Manny Steward say, when the same topic came up, that he considered Hearns to a good example of carrying power up

Last edited by Mario040481; 10-30-2019 at 05:20 AM. Reason: type errors
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Old 10-30-2019, 02:14 PM #28
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- -Speaking of Manny, he's well up with Sam over 8 weight divisions, and remember he skipped superfly and bantam.

He also only had one stop at 135 and 140, both KOs. Sniffys might say at 154 he failed to Ko Marg, but massive consensus agree the fight needed to be stopped. Marg and his eye never recovered.

And but for incompetent referees, should've had stops of BALCO Juan in the first two fights.
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Old 10-30-2019, 02:20 PM #29
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Originally Posted by AlexKid View Post
So gusy that had power as lighter men or at least as originally lighter men.

Please give me the most extreme examples of this.

Also if you wish since its not as important tell me boxers who were extremely powerful in their natural weight class but lost the power as they went up weight divisions.
- -I'd say you need to be diapered more than you did 15 yrs ago.
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