Ray Leonard says to overcome Mayweather shoulder roll, hit the shoulder..you agree?

[Ray Corso]

Floyd Sr. was more of a pressure fighter who fought out of a "boxers stance"!
He rarely boxed around anyone he more or less came to you!
I saw Sr. box back when he was a teenager, one of my kids fought him in a Regional Tourney and I think I worked the first or second Mayweather vs Starling fight too! He didn't surprise anyone he was very deliberate and axctually a tuff opponent!! Had more size and body strength than Jr. Ray

[ADP02]

what about every other stance that floyd uses being that he only uses that roll when he has too

The TS brought up shoulder roll stance. So that is what is being discussed. Floyd is best when he can use that stance. When he doesn't then it leaves him more open.

I believe "hitting" the shoulder is just a ploy to get Floyd out of that stance. Once out of that stance, SRL has more options.

[BoxingFollower]

Did floyd senior have a shoulder roll and Ray overcame senior. So Ray should know a thing or two about it.

That shoulder roll was almost as ugly as Andre Bertos...
Now only 1 man in my opinion should be giving advice on how to beat the shoulder roll...and thats Roy Jones Jr, he had no problem dealing with James Toney's impression of the shoulder roll.

[12TRIBEsRiSe]

The TS brought up shoulder roll stance. So that is what is being discussed. Floyd is best when he can use that stance. When he doesn't then it leaves him more open.

I believe "hitting" the shoulder is just a ploy to get Floyd out of that stance. Once out of that stance, SRL has more options.

yeah i didn trealize floyd was only 5'6 either dang! this changes my opinion on the fantasy fight

[hugh grant]

That shoulder roll was almost as ugly as Andre Bertos...
Now only 1 man in my opinion should be giving advice on how to beat the shoulder roll...and thats Roy Jones Jr, he had no problem dealing with James Toney's impression of the shoulder roll.

Yes i think floyds shoulder roll isnt effective against physical beasts like SRL, RJJ and Pac.

yeah i didn trealize floyd was only 5'6 either dang! this changes my opinion on the fantasy fight

Na, Floyds about 5,8

[ADP02]

SRL only has a 2 in reach advantage. If you think srl beats him fine. But please, don't posts silly **** like reach advantage when you clearly had no idea what is was for each fighter.

SRl's plan makes sense, but unless you have a Hearns like reach advantage you'd be silly, no matter how great you are, to fight like that vs floyd becaused floyd's reach (coupled with his speed)is extremely long for someone his size.

When Floyd uses his shoulder roll stance, it makes him less effective against a fighter that stays on the outside and needs to hit Floyd's shoulder. What I'm saying is for that tactic, taking into consideration that all SRL is doing is hitting Floyd's shoulder, SRL can easily remain on the outside. Now take into account that he has a reach/height advantage and hass very good speed and movement, it would make it harder for Floyd to do anything effective during that exchange.

Floyd would have to open up and "reach" to do anything noteworthy but that would be "advantage SRL" because that would make Floyd more vulnerable.

Finally, what makes the shoulder roll work for Floyd is that he usually can counter an opponent that is reaching in and "missing" his target (ie. Floyd's head).

Hitting the shoulder is SRL saying, I will be patient and hit what I can get until Floyd hurts his shoulder and opens up or changes his stance.

Remember, Floyd's shoulder is much closer to SRL to hit that Floyd's head that is way behind his shoulder while in that stance. Therefore, SRL does not require a Hearns like reach. He just needs a slight advantage against a Floyd that is not in a "offense first" position.

[The904star]

That would be the key .... getting Floyd to say sign on the dotted line ..... lol!

SRL would have used more than one punch (plan) to attack and beat Floyd.

Possibly what SRL meant is the opponent should also hit what is available. Some fighters would try to hit Floyd's head even though it was hard to do when using the shoulder roll. Those who are taller and have a longer reach than Floyd would have had a better chance at going over the shoulder roll. Perhaps SRL would have done that being that he is taller and has the reach advantage.

I can see SRL zeroing in on that shoulder and hitting it hard to the point that Floyd would be reluctant to stay in that position all night long. SRL had the reach, speed, movement and athleticism that most who fought Floyd never did. It would be hard for Floyd to counter effectively when using the shoulder roll against SRL if all SRL did the first few rounds was punch Floyd's shoulder.

Again, SRL would have deployed various attacks that would have caused problems for Floyd. You can't just think that the fight would be just about punching the shoulder.

All that is cool. But who has Leonard fought that is anywhere near as good when it comes to speed, defense, accuracy, and intelligence all wrapped up in one. I understand that most people always say the best guy in the past is better than the best guy today. I'm just saying that might not be the case. If Leonard was to come out the first 3 rounds and focus on the shoulder, he'll be down 3 rounds and on his way to a loss. U can't do that when the other guy is scoring with clean shots. Punching the shoulder should have nothing to do with the gameplan. He gets hit in the shoulder every fight lol. In my opinion u have to take the lead on Floyd and make him feel like he has to come win the fight. Then u outbox him. Floyds advantage over anybody he could fight is defense. Noone's offense looks the same against him as it did everyone else. Take that way by making him be the aggressor and make him come forward. Only thing is, u have to be defensive and a counter puncher yourself. It will take a superior boxer to beat him. No one around today can do that. Maybe SRL could, maybe he couldnt.

[Skittlez]

[QUOTE=hugh grant;12919259]Yes i think floyds shoulder roll isnt effective against physical beasts like SRL, RJJ and Pac.



Na, Floyds about 5,8[/QUOTE]

No he's not.

He stood next to a Radio Host Guy who is 5'8... and he was clearly 2-3 inches shorter.

50 Cent's accurate measure is 5'11. I'm 3 inches taller than my friend.. that height disparity is sort of noticeable but no where near as noticeable as Floyd-50

Floyd is either 5'6 or 50 Cent is 6'3..
Which one is it.

[DIB42]

You got to hit what you can..I'd say the elbow and chest personally, but I see advantage in the shoulder as well.. I see so many fighters come at floyd hard early, and then just stand there confused for over half the fight. You have to outwork floyd by a large margin to beat him. For every clean punch he lands on you, you have land 5 glancing blows.

Head on the chest and hooks to the body, and looping overhands to the temple if he pushes you back.

[ADP02]

All that is cool. But who has Leonard fought that is anywhere near as good when it comes to speed, defense, accuracy, and intelligence all wrapped up in one. I understand that most people always say the best guy in the past is better than the best guy today. I'm just saying that might not be the case. If Leonard was to come out the first 3 rounds and focus on the shoulder, he'll be down 3 rounds and on his way to a loss. U can't do that when the other guy is scoring with clean shots. Punching the shoulder should have nothing to do with the gameplan. He gets hit in the shoulder every fight lol. In my opinion u have to take the lead on Floyd and make him feel like he has to come win the fight. Then u outbox him. Floyds advantage over anybody he could fight is defense. Noone's offense looks the same against him as it did everyone else. Take that way by making him be the aggressor and make him come forward. Only thing is, u have to be defensive and a counter puncher yourself. It will take a superior boxer to beat him. No one around today can do that. Maybe SRL could, maybe he couldnt.

This thread's discussion is just about one comment that was stated that SRL would use as part of his overall game plan but if you know SRL, you would know that he would be doing much more than just "hitting the shoulder".

By the way, SRL knows how to win rounds. Ask Hagler, Hearns, .... how he can look impressive enough to steal some close rounds.
I can see in the first few rounds, SRL deploy his "hitting the shoulder" plan then have a couple of flurries during the round to make him win the round. Being behind, then Floyd would need to open up and that is when it would get really interesting.

SRL has a much better resume compared to Floyd. That plus his size advantage and his talent, speed, movement, all around athleticism and experience makes me think that SRL would give Floyd trouble that Floyd has never experienced before. Floyd would give SRL something to think about as well but if SRL would have actually figured out how to penetrate Floyd's defense then it would be a long night for Floyd.