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Old 10-27-2017, 12:58 AM #51
Anthony342 Anthony342 is offline
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No, of course not. That's why I just said pretty good, since he didn't spend near as much time there. Like Michael Spinks, another guy on people's ATG light heavy lists, who only had a few fights at HW, so is considered pretty good there. Ward definitely doesn't rank anywhere on an all time light heavyweight list, but is considered pretty good among the ones during his own time in the short time he competed there.
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Old 10-27-2017, 04:19 AM #52
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Originally Posted by chrisJS View Post
Ward was in litigation. Moot point. He couldn't legally fight. Ward also said he can make 160 for Floyd but not 164 for GGG. There's a double standard there.

Once Ward was legally able to fight he embarked on the 175 division.
There was a window where the fight could have been made, when GGG was having trouble getting big names to face him. This is another rehash of an NSB debate that has been done to death.

Regardless, had Ward been given the opportunity before moving up to 175 I think he would have been able to put two impressive notches in his belt in Golovkin and Kovalev. And to me it's a shame he didn't get that chance even though he wanted it and asked for it.
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Old 10-27-2017, 09:48 AM #53
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Originally Posted by ShoulderRoll View Post
There was a window where the fight could have been made, when GGG was having trouble getting big names to face him. This is another rehash of an NSB debate that has been done to death.

Regardless, had Ward been given the opportunity before moving up to 175 I think he would have been able to put two impressive notches in his belt in Golovkin and Kovalev. And to me it's a shame he didn't get that chance even though he wanted it and asked for it.
He asked for it when he was out of litigation and "called out" GGG after GGG already had a fight signed with Lemieux. That is a fact. Ward just trying to fool people and namedrop GGG to get some attention. He also said he'd come down to 160 for Floyd NOT GGG.

Ward says a lot. 3-4 weeks before he retired he claimed he dreamed of the heavyweight division and was negotiating a fight with Bellew when in reality his HBO contract was expired and he was asking Hearn to let him fight a nobody from England. He then retires.

That's not a guy that speak with conviction.
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Old 10-27-2017, 11:25 AM #54
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Originally Posted by Mooshashi View Post
IMO he didn't have enough fights at LHW to be considered at all at that weight. The usual list of top ten LHW's including guys like Ezzard Charles, Foster, Moore etc had dozens of fights at 175. Beating Kovalev and a couple other guys simply doesn't compare favorably.
Yup. Light heavy is a legitimate division. Historically most, if not all, of the great light heavy guys swooped up and knocked off heavyweights when they had nothing left in their own division. The acid test is "could Ward have swooped?" and the obvious answer is "no."

The older divisions in boxing were such that fighters could be in a category for most of their career and fight the best competition... You will always have guys like Moore who could fight up and down and defy categorisation.
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Old 10-27-2017, 07:25 PM #55
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When rating top contenders and champions I don not consider "junior" & "super" division as true weight classes. A fellow like Ward fought light heavy in the amateurs with a cut line of 178lbs. He was a young man who wasn't a tall fellow 6' and was not a large framed body either. Like so many with his structure they were able to cut their weight to 168 using the 2 day weigh in time and had an advantage over fellows who were on their way to 175 or simply could not make 160 anymore.

When it comes to champions I do NOT rate fighters in these
"in between" weight classes that were established to first promote more money opportunities for federations and management companies.

If these junior/senior weight classes were in vogue years ago Armstrong in his prime would have been champion from 130 to 154!!!!!

Ward to me is a light heavy, come bell time he was far above 175 in either weight class.
With that in mind I would rank him in the top thirty because of his style and adaptability. The only thing that keeps him down in the ranks is his lack of power in the right hand.
Other than that obvious fault he was a good boxer, decent enough fighter and a methodical competitor. Always in top condition and more than willing.
I get a kick out the people who think he was a dirty fighter, that's ridiculous! He was never DQ and until the ref halt's a "technique" your ok performing it!
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He is not an ATG rated performer, a HoF boxer, Yes! His era's top performer, Yes!

night all;
Ray

Last edited by Ray Corso; 10-27-2017 at 07:30 PM.
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Old 10-27-2017, 08:55 PM #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Corso View Post
When rating top contenders and champions I don not consider "junior" & "super" division as true weight classes. A fellow like Ward fought light heavy in the amateurs with a cut line of 178lbs. He was a young man who wasn't a tall fellow 6' and was not a large framed body either. Like so many with his structure they were able to cut their weight to 168 using the 2 day weigh in time and had an advantage over fellows who were on their way to 175 or simply could not make 160 anymore.

When it comes to champions I do NOT rate fighters in these
"in between" weight classes that were established to first promote more money opportunities for federations and management companies.

If these junior/senior weight classes were in vogue years ago Armstrong in his prime would have been champion from 130 to 154!!!!!

Ward to me is a light heavy, come bell time he was far above 175 in either weight class.
With that in mind I would rank him in the top thirty because of his style and adaptability. The only thing that keeps him down in the ranks is his lack of power in the right hand.
Other than that obvious fault he was a good boxer, decent enough fighter and a methodical competitor. Always in top condition and more than willing.
I get a kick out the people who think he was a dirty fighter, that's ridiculous! He was never DQ and until the ref halt's a "technique" your ok performing it!
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He is not an ATG rated performer, a HoF boxer, Yes! His era's top performer, Yes!

night all;
Ray

Well said my man!!! Thank you.
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Old 10-28-2017, 12:24 AM #57
Tarl of Bristol Tarl of Bristol is offline
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Originally Posted by ShoulderRoll View Post
Well, if you look back at the history...for the longest time Golovkin's camp said he would fight anyone from 154 to 168.

But then when Ward raised his hand and said he was interested suddenly it became "164 or no fight."
Which is still in the range between 154 and 168.
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Old 10-28-2017, 01:26 AM #58
Anthony342 Anthony342 is offline
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Ward may not be dirty overall, but those were some low blows that lead up to the stoppage in his last fight, although some clean shots were landed at the time of the stoppage.
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Old 10-28-2017, 02:15 AM #59
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Originally Posted by Anthony342 View Post
Ward may not be dirty overall, but those were some low blows that lead up to the stoppage in his last fight, although some clean shots were landed at the time of the stoppage.
it is comical in its innanity Anthony: Kovalev starts to push his guard down to his body, Ward meanwhile is intent on attacking the body and leaves the head wide open to try to continue to hit the Russian's body... Kovalev like many fighters has his trunks a bit high so its hard to tell when a blow is low, or on the cusp, there were some low blows. Ward could have made life easy by going for the head lol. It looks like they the Russian has been reduced to two targets: his groin and just above the groin, Kovalev is grimacing but its not entirely clear whether it is because of the body shot or a shot to the groin. It did look like Kovalev could not defend any longer for whatever reason.

The punch that won it to me was Ward's counter right...that was a beautifully accurate punch and Kovalev looked very bad from its effects. I don't think he ever recovered from that punch frankly.
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Old 10-28-2017, 05:38 AM #60
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If Kovalev bounces back and looks like the Kovalev we know, that says a lot about Ward.
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