I have a question, and I need some opinions

[boxingnut712]

Well I though posting my question in the nutruition, and fitness section of this forum, however, all the responses that I was met with did not answer my question, but rather, only asked more questions, so let me try this again.

On Friday Afternoon February 25, 2000. A poorly executed weigh in was conducted by the New York State Athletic Commission. The following night Joey Gamache was smashed into retirement by Arturo Gatti, and Oscar De La Hoya knocked out Derrell Coley. In the aftermath of this fight a public outcry was launched against Arturo Gatti.

Unbeknownst to the general public. 4 fight fans looking for picture, and an autograph with Arturo Gatti, gained access to the weigh in through the New York City Fire, and Police Department. Like Gamache, and his handlers these guys filmed a home movie at the weigh in as well. A home movie that tells a different story that what was released in the fight media, and to the world. A copy of this was sent to the New York State Attorney Generals, and the New York State Athletic Commission in 2005.

One of these fans was in the New York City Fire Academy, and tragdically died in the 9/11 attacks in New York. Two of the other three fans ( Jack Rosario, and Edwin Harper ) like Anthony Russo, Michael Coyle, and Arturo Gatti met their death just one month before the trial began in April of 2009. The last fan ( Richard Szoke ) was badly mangled in January 2009, though he managed to survive, and is currently disabled.

No one really knows what Gatti, or De La Hoya actually weighed though both claimed to make weight following the fights, and neither one had a problem making weight in their career up to that point. Their weights were called before the scales had a chance to balance though I find it odd that both Gatti & De La Hoya could have been overweight on the same afternoon. In the aftermath of these fights, the weigh in's in New York were briefly returned to day of the fight 60 some odd days after the De La Hoya, and Gatti in time for Gatti's next fight. On that card Junior Jones fought Paul Ingle whom did not know the weigh in was to be held the day of the fight. Ingle won the fight, but was left with permenant brain damage.

Gatti sweated down from 170 pounds to make 141, and put 19 pounds of hydration back on the next day.

Joey Gamache was fighting at a Junior Middleweight catchweight, and sweat off 20 pounds from around 160 to make 140 for the fight with Gatti, but unlike Gatti, Gamache only put 4 3/4 pounds of hydration back on folloning the weigh in.

MY QUESTION IS THIS:
Can a fighter In this case Gamache cut 20 pounds to make his weight only put on 4 3/4 pounds of hydration?

I am contending that without drugs, or medications this can not be done, and I am asking for other opinions as to if it is possible. What Gamache actually weighed is not the issue. What the issue is how does someone cut that amount of weight for a fight, and then put so little back on, and if it is possible.

I don't think Roy Jones Jr could do it, I don't think Bernard Hopkins could do it, I do not think Floyd Mayweather Jr. could do, and I do not think anybody could do it without drugs, or medication,and that they would have to put more weight on then 4 3/4 pounds following the weigh in!

[ИATAS]

Good post which raises a lot of good points about the problems with boxing's weight classes, weigh-in's, cutting weight, cheating, etc.

Gaining more than a few pounds from the weigh in is just water weight. So it certainly doesn't imply the fighter was using drugs (and it doesn't mean they weren't either). Making weight is an art-form and with the 24-hour prior to the fight weigh in, it makes this so much more easy. If you need to lose 10 pounds to make weight, how can you do that quickly? By cutting out water in your body (there is a lot of it!). Then the fighter typically has 24 hours to rehydrate.

I don't know when the Gatti/Gamache weigh in took place though; how many hours before the fight was it?

I'm 100% certain shady stuff has and does go down in weigh-ins all the time in boxing. I don't think we see it as much for bigger, high profile fights, but smaller cards certainly. It can be tricky to regulate.

[bigjavi973]

heard around one time I was walking around a birdie was saying that they messed with the scales to uh.... get the weight they wanted....

[Eff Pandas]

Unbeknownst to the general public. 4 fight fans looking for picture, and an autograph with Arturo Gatti, gained access to the weigh in through the New York City Fire, and Police Department. Like Gamache, and his handlers these guys filmed a home movie at the weigh in as well. A home movie that tells a different story that what was released in the fight media, and to the world. A copy of this was sent to the New York State Attorney Generals, and the New York State Athletic Commission in 2005.

One of these fans was in the New York City Fire Academy, and tragdically died in the 9/11 attacks in New York. Two of the other three fans ( Jack Rosario, and Edwin Harper ) like Anthony Russo, Michael Coyle, and Arturo Gatti met their death just one month before the trial began in April of 2009. The last fan ( Richard Szoke ) was badly mangled in January 2009, though he managed to survive, and is currently disabled.

Apparently the Illuminati doesn't want this info to come out. This is some Youtube conspiracy video level ****.

[boxingnut712]

Apparently the Illuminati doesn't want this info to come out. This is some Youtube conspiracy video level ****.

I do not know about youtube.com , or what ever is going on there. Who is the Illuminati? This is the additional information that I have:

Richard Szoke contends that Joey Gamache had invested his life savings into building a restaurant in his native Maine. A bank in Maine approved a loan combined with Gamache's savings for that restaurant. For some reason, or another the Bank pulled the loan on Gamache in which he was left near bankrupt, and facing a divorce.

Szoke claims that Joey Gamache's manager Johnny Bos, and the executive director of the New York State Athelic Commission Anthony Russo were friends, and had dealings together over the career of Tracy Harris Patterson whom Arturo Gatti beat to become famous. Szoke says that the scale was tampered with to weigh the fighters heavier then they actually were, and that when Gamache got onto the scale, and it read 140 1/4 pounds that he was actually a lightweight.

Szoke contends Gamache did this because he was broke as a joke,and even needed advance training expenses for the fight. Szoke believes Gamache knew that Gatti would put on a significant amount of weight following the weigh in, and what happened at the scale was all preorchestrated for a multi million dollar lawsuit when he moved to New York, and asked Lou DiBella for the Gatti fight.

Szoke also contends that the Mafia took a shot at him, and they are the ones responsible for killing Michael Coyle, Arturo Gatti, Edwin Harper, and Jack Rosario.

Szoke says he waited until all the people on top of the New York State Athletic Commission either resigned, were fired, or there terms expired before sending them any evidence in 2005. Szoke claims that his attempts to contact Gatti directly failed.

After sending evidence to the Commission, Attorney Generals office, and the FBI in Newark in 2005, Szoke said that he thinks all anyone was interested in was making the whole thing go away, and that his footage would have given both Arturo Gatti, and Paul Ingle retalliation lawsuits against the New York State Athletic Commission, and others.

Szoke further said, The New York State Athletic Commission banned, or blacklisted Joey Gamache's manager Johnny Bos, but he was not sure if it was before, or he after speaking to their legal department headed by a guy named Hugo Pinta, and sending them evidence.


I appreciate all, and any replies, but I still really have not gotten a straight answer yes, or no answer on the actual question as to whether Gamache could have sweat down from around 160 to make 141, and then only rehydrated a mere 4 3/4 pounds.

I believe Gamache could sweat it down, but it is the rehydration number that I am looking at that puts me in agreement that Gamache had to be a lightweight. I think everyone looked at Gatti's size, and how he pummeled Gamache into retirement that no one was really looking at any of Gamache's numbers. I am not sure why Gamache is weighing himself 3 times after his physical, and before the weigh in, and another two times before getting into the ring

Gamache himself said the last couple of pounds were a killer. A gallon of water weighs 7 Lbs, and the guy had to eat something leading into the fight 29 - 30 hours later.


The only thing else that I could get from Szoke is that he thought his car was rigged to kill him with carbon monoxide poisoning through his cars heating system, and that 14 days earlier he had $2000 dollars worth of work done which included a new battery, tires, spark plugs, an antifreeze flush, front end ailigment, brakes, rotors, and a state inspection. Nothing was wrong his exhaust, or heating system. Szoke is convinced the mafia was, and maybe still is trying to kill him.

[SalimShady1212]

Couldn't it also just mean poor rehydration? Water weight is usually more than just a few lbs. there have been occasions were fighters are so dehydrated they can't rehydrate properly and there are consequences. e.g Watson-Eubank 2 where there was concern that Watson wasn't sweating while warming up in the dressing room.

[boxingnut712]

Couldn't it also just mean poor rehydration? Water weight is usually more than just a few lbs. there have been occasions were fighters are so dehydrated they can't rehydrate properly and there are consequences. e.g Watson-Eubank 2 where there was concern that Watson wasn't sweating while warming up in the dressing room.

That is exactly what Szoke was saying that if Gamache had shed that much weight to make the weigh in, how does he only put on a couple of pounds, and is it even possible. Szoke said that if Gamache was actually a lightweigh he would have put on 10 pounds to be at 145, and then 147.9 with gloves, wraps, tapes, and so forth. Szoke does not think that anybody whom cuts that kind of weight would only put on just about 5 pounds that it would be more. Szoke said De La Hoya whose weight was also in question weighed 154 when he got into the building, and 159 pounds by the time he got into the ring. That is 12 pounds above 147.

The question on the table is that poor rehydration of about 5 pounds possible for someone whom sweated off that kind of weight ?

I think there is something to what this guy is saying. He has named names of people he talked to, and when there is a disappearing witness list of fans, fighters, commissioners, and lawyers like it is the god damn kennedy assassination something does not seem right, but at the same token it sounds kind of on the looney side as well, hence, the question.

[boxingnut712]

Couldn't it also just mean poor rehydration? Water weight is usually more than just a few lbs. there have been occasions were fighters are so dehydrated they can't rehydrate properly and there are consequences. e.g Watson-Eubank 2 where there was concern that Watson wasn't sweating while warming up in the dressing room.

I do not know the details of Watson - Eubank. I know that De La Hoya shed considerable Arturo Gatti like weight to fight Manny Pacquiao at 147, and De La Hoya could not rehydrated, but the word cocaine also gets thrown into that sentence.

When you are talking about the New York State Sthletic Commission anything is possible, and that is the problem. Doctored medical records, phony, and covered up drug tests. These guy break all the rules for the sake of a buck.

I have also heard Stories of Bowe - Golota II, and Ali - Holmes, but the words metabolism medications get thrown into that sentence.

[Rockin']

On the weight issue it depends. Did Gamache drop the 20 lbs in 3 months... 2 months.... or in a desperate 3 day dry out?

If he lost the weight sensibly than he dropped it over time.
If not than he dried out as much as he had to.

If he dropped it over time than I could easily see him only gaining a few pounds. Weigh-in, eat sensibly and fight.

If he dried out than no way in hell does he only gain 4lbs or so. Every drop of water that he injested would have been instantly stored.
Weigh-in, IV, fight. It's really rough on a body though.

.

[boxingnut712]

On the weight issue it depends. Did Gamache drop the 20 lbs in 3 months... 2 months.... or in a desperate 3 day dry out?

If he lost the weight sensibly than he dropped it over time.
If not than he dried out as much as he had to.

If he dropped it over time than I could easily see him only gaining a few pounds. Weigh-in, eat sensibly and fight.

If he dried out than no way in hell does he only gain 4lbs or so. Every drop of water that he injested would have been instantly stored.
Weigh-in, IV, fight. It's really rough on a body though.

Gatti played the dryout game like a master.

Other then Gamache saying the last couple of pounds were absolutely killer, and that he struggled to make weight too, I do not know what Gamache did in his camp in the 2 1/2 months or so leading into the fight, or how he looked. I have not seen this home movie of Johnny Bos, and Anthony Russo. I have not even seen the video of the actual weigh in. I saw a brief clip of the weigh in from the Grant - Lewis Pay Per View. I do not see the commotion on stage that is described by the media, and I don't see Gatti getting on, and off the scale real quick like it is describe by the media.

I saw vehicle service records, mail records, and telephone records indicating this guy Szoke had contacted people that is the best I can say. Gamache was not one of them as he thinks it was Gamache behind the weigh in monkey business.