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Old 04-26-2016, 07:03 PM #11
Furn Furn is offline
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When you consider the overall number of fatalites in boxing, the numbers trained by their father you've found dont seem to overproportionate.
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Old 04-26-2016, 07:28 PM #12
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Didn't Billy Ray Collins kill himself a year or two later? He didn't die from his ring injury.
Yar, I had him in the wrong group. Thanks for pointing it out.
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Old 04-26-2016, 07:38 PM #13
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When you consider the overall number of fatalites in boxing, the numbers trained by their father you've found dont seem to overproportionate.
I don't think there has been an completely accurate figure discovered yet is the thing. I think the examples given are just what a little digging has discovered. It'd take a lot of research to come up with a true number overall.

Might be interesting to just go over the last year or something & seeing what that looks like for starters. I've seen a few sites that list all the ring deaths in any given year somewhere out there in the internet.
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Old 04-26-2016, 07:39 PM #14
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When you consider the overall number of fatalites in boxing, the numbers trained by their father you've found dont seem to overproportionate.
Keep in mind that I have probably found only a fraction of the total number of boxers who died or were permanently injured with their fathers in their corners - I believe all the names I found were pros, and most of them were killed in the English-speaking world (i.e., the US, UK, and Australia).

And we don't know the scope or methodology of the graph you posted.

Who is included on that graph? Only pros? Pros and amateurs? Pros, amateurs, and underground fighters?

What does the graph mean by "deaths"? Died in the ring or shortly after a fight? Died years later from injuries suffered in a single fight? Died years later from a career-worth of cumulative damage? We don't know.


It is much easier to find a list of all the pro boxers who died in the ring than it is to find a list of the ones who were injured or killed with their dad in the corner.

Last edited by Batfrett; 04-26-2016 at 07:41 PM.
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Old 04-26-2016, 07:48 PM #15
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I don't think there has been an completely accurate figure discovered yet is the thing. I think the examples given are just what a little digging has discovered. It'd take a lot of research to come up with a true number overall.
Yes, the examples I found aren't a comprehensive and complete list of all deaths/serious injuries with a father in the corner.

Basically, the examples represent what I could find on google in a couple of hours. That limits the scope to articles that:

1. Contain the relevant search terms I used

2. Are written in English

3. Are available to google searches right now

4. Mention the presence of a father in the corner of the victim

5. Caught my attention

That excludes incidents that didn't get much attention, were written about in other languages, aren't available to google, don't contain the search terms I used, don't mention who was in the corner, and didn't catch my attention.

That's why I'd really like to get my hands on the California Athletic Commision study that was mentioned in the two articles I quoted earlier. I don't see a way forward without some kind of reliable, scholarly study done by professionals.

Last edited by Batfrett; 04-26-2016 at 07:53 PM.
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Old 04-26-2016, 08:00 PM #16
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Benjamin Flores died due to ring injuries in 2009 with his dad in the corner. The father currently trains & corners Miguel Flores, a undefeated prospect.
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Old 04-26-2016, 08:06 PM #17
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Originally Posted by Batfrett View Post
Keep in mind that I have probably found only a fraction of the total number of boxers who died or were permanently injured with their fathers in their corners - I believe all the names I found were pros, and most of them were killed in the English-speaking world (i.e., the US, UK, and Australia).

And we don't know the scope or methodology of the graph you posted.

Who is included on that graph? Only pros? Pros and amateurs? Pros, amateurs, and underground fighters?

What does the graph mean by "deaths"? Died in the ring or shortly after a fight? Died years later from injuries suffered in a single fight? Died years later from a career-worth of cumulative damage? We don't know.


It is much easier to find a list of all the pro boxers who died in the ring than it is to find a list of the ones who were injured or killed with their dad in the corner.
This is based on the The Manuel Velazquez Fatality Collection, which started out as just a guy collecting newspaper clippings but grew into a more complete database of fatalities in boxing and seems to be the most accurate record out there. It includes fighters believed to died due to injuries from boxing.

The makeup is training deaths 9% of the total deaths on the list. Of the actual ring deaths, 68% were pro, 22% were amateur, and 1% were Toughman fighters.

youre right tho it would be hard to find out who these guiys trainers were . Obviously 4 out 7 in 1980 is unusual but it could just be an outlier.

link is here

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Old 04-26-2016, 08:09 PM #18
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I'd never tell my son to box. I like the sport and the gym atmosphere but pro fighters are basically human pets/animals we pump full of steroids and xylocaine then watch them sustain permanent brain damage.

My son is gonna be some evil banker not a dumbass boxer.
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Old 04-26-2016, 09:03 PM #19
Batfrett Batfrett is offline
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Benjamin Flores died due to ring injuries in 2009 with his dad in the corner. The father currently trains & corners Miguel Flores, a undefeated prospect.
Brilliant! Thanks for the tip. I had read a couple of articles about him in the course of my research, but I hadn't noticed the fact that his dad was in his corner - which goes to highlight the limitations of my approach.
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Old 04-26-2016, 09:21 PM #20
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Fiddled around with a screencap of Wikipedia's page on "Deaths Due to Injuries Sustained in Boxing". Green box = fighter had his father in the corner during the fatal bout. Red line = the name wasn't on the wiki page, so I edited the screencap to add it. http: //i.imgur.com/xnSZV4V. png (copy and paste the link, and delete the two spaces to make it work)
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