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Old 03-08-2020, 04:32 AM #1
BangEM BangEM is offline
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Default Is Charles Martin the 2nd best heavyweight on PBC behind Andy Ruiz?

It looks more and more like Charles Martin might be the 2nd best heavyweight on PBC.

When Haymon sent him to the UK to beat AJ. People thought he's a bum but it now seems Haymon knew what he was doing and he probably thought Martin would beat AJ.
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Old 03-08-2020, 05:41 AM #2
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Ok enough with the wind up.

Let’s analyse fairly.

Andy Ruiz -
Beaten several nobodies
Lost a split decision for the WBO with Joseph Parker; could have gone either way but couldn’t argue with result.
Beat several other nobodies.
Beaten Joshua in style and for a short period considered rank #1; some do consider him fairly lucky though.
Lost the rematch after clearly not training sufficiently

Deontay Wilder -
Beaten a number of nobodies, including picking up the WBC on the way.
we know he has avoided a number of fights, hes admitted to klitschko for exanple, but others such as AJ, martin, whyte, povetkin and parker are all debated.
Finally he picked up his game against Ortiz, beating him twice. However it could be argued Ortiz is both old and has beaten nobody himself.
Continuing his step up he has lost twice to fury, but many consider him now to be #1 (or at least second behind AJ).
Wilder has beaten in style a few ok level opponents such as Brezeale and Molina.

Hunter -
Lost to Usyk as cruiserweight, many of whom believe may go on to be the best at heavyweight also.
Beaten a number of heavyweights, none top class but a few mid to lower range including kuzman and ustinov.
Drew with Povetkin but many felt he won the fight.

Martin -
Beaten nobody.
Won a title through injury to opponent.
Lost comfortably to Joshua.
Beat nobody.
Lost to kownacki.
Beat nobody.

Brezeale
Beaten nobody of note
Lost to AJ and wilder




So in conclusion I think wilder, Ruiz and hunter are all above Martin. Others can be debated.

But the real underlying problem is there is a big pattern here. Nobody who is American is fighting the top level opponents, the same issue is with every fighter.

Give a few comparisons (all matchroom)

Joshua has fought - Whyte, Povetkin, Ruiz, Klitschko, Takam, Brezeale, Parker and scheduled against pulev

Whyte has fought- chisora, Rivas, Joshua, parker, helenius and scheduled against Povetkin

Chisora has fought Takam, Whyte, fury and Pulev

All these fighters have lost fights but I think we hold them in higher regard. Chisora for example would be a favourite against a Brezeale or Martin, but he has only really beaten Takam in honesty. Short term keeping 0 helps but as soon as it’s gone your resume looks awful and much harder to sell.
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Old 03-08-2020, 05:42 AM #3
Madison boxing Madison boxing is offline
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Pbc should get a tournament going- the loser six. The winner can get a fight against hughie fury or something.
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Old 03-08-2020, 05:49 AM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kezzer View Post
Ok enough with the wind up.

Letís analyse fairly.

Andy Ruiz -
Beaten several nobodies
Lost a split decision for the WBO with Joseph Parker; could have gone either way but couldnít argue with result.
Beat several other nobodies.
Beaten Joshua in style and for a short period considered rank #1; some do consider him fairly lucky though.
Lost the rematch after clearly not training sufficiently

Deontay Wilder -
Beaten a number of nobodies, including picking up the WBC on the way.
we know he has avoided a number of fights, hes admitted to klitschko for exanple, but others such as AJ, martin, whyte, povetkin and parker are all debated.
Finally he picked up his game against Ortiz, beating him twice. However it could be argued Ortiz is both old and has beaten nobody himself.
Continuing his step up he has lost twice to fury, but many consider him now to be #1 (or at least second behind AJ).
Wilder has beaten in style a few ok level opponents such as Brezeale and Molina.

Hunter -
Lost to Usyk as cruiserweight, many of whom believe may go on to be the best at heavyweight also.
Beaten a number of heavyweights, none top class but a few mid to lower range including kuzman and ustinov.
Drew with Povetkin but many felt he won the fight.

Martin -
Beaten nobody.
Won a title through injury to opponent.
Lost comfortably to Joshua.
Beat nobody.
Lost to kownacki.
Beat nobody.

Brezeale
Beaten nobody of note
Lost to AJ and wilder




So in conclusion I think wilder, Ruiz and hunter are all above Martin. Others can be debated.

But the real underlying problem is there is a big pattern here. Nobody who is American is fighting the top level opponents, the same issue is with every fighter.

Give a few comparisons (all matchroom)

Joshua has fought - Whyte, Povetkin, Ruiz, Klitschko, Takam, Brezeale, Parker and scheduled against pulev

Whyte has fought- chisora, Rivas, Joshua, parker, helenius and scheduled against Povetkin

Chisora has fought Takam, Whyte, fury and Pulev

All these fighters have lost fights but I think we hold them in higher regard. Chisora for example would be a favourite against a Brezeale or Martin, but he has only really beaten Takam in honesty. Short term keeping 0 helps but as soon as itís gone your resume looks awful and much harder to sell.
Hunter left PBC a while ago.
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Old 03-08-2020, 07:04 AM #5
Kezzer Kezzer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxOfficer View Post
Hunter left PBC a while ago.
To be honest I was reading it as American rather than pbc but it underlines my point further. Hunter since leaving pbc has taken on clearly stronger opposition and in my view is becoming far better known for it.

Nobody in the uk knew him at all before he fought povetkin
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Old 03-08-2020, 08:24 AM #6
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If Ruiz gets back in shape he's a level above Martin. Would expect Martin to beat Breazeale but lose to Kownacki again
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Old 03-08-2020, 08:31 AM #7
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Man that fight with Washington was boring until the left hand which was a beauty.

Got to love the heavies
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Old 03-08-2020, 08:34 AM #8
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Joshua caught him cold and early, and that loss to Joshua wasn't much more one sided than wilders to fury. Martin isn't a joke fighter, I wouldn't rule him out beating wilder
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Old 03-08-2020, 02:33 PM #9
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I’d pick Martin to beat Wilder, Ortiz, Breazeale and Kownacki in a rematch.
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Old 03-08-2020, 03:10 PM #10
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Martin dealt with Washington quite easily. Washington was outboxing Wilder and beat Helenius.
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Last edited by Robbie Barrett; 03-08-2020 at 03:12 PM.
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