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Old 05-10-2015, 05:44 PM #31
juggernaut666 juggernaut666 is offline
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Originally Posted by Ray Corso View Post
Ketchell was not as skilled as Johnson, not even close! You need to realize that there are people in this section that know boxing history far more than you do. Your not going to BS in this section! It's not Fantasy Land.
You keep bringing up size and using Tyson as if he were 6'4" 235 he who was 5'9.5" and at 220 he was NOT at his best either. Tyson's best weight was 215-218, Frazier at 5'10.5" was at his best at 212-216. Neither had reach advantages but both knew how to execute their game plan. Theres alot of technique in their styles but most novice fans think that pressure fighters are crude and unskilled. Theres as many factors in their style as there is in Ali's lateral movement and straight shots to set up combos. The average fan simply doesn't know the techniques that need to be masterted to be effective for a top tier pressure competitor!

Start recognizing over all skills and talents because those are the intangables that count not how tall you are or how much you weigh.
Ray
Ketchell was the middle weight champion who had crisper punches...as I recall JJ had terrible balance and in many fights almost falls out of the ring simply by not mainting balcnace coming forward...either way you couldn't really respond with logic or answer any logical questions because you know the 50 pound advantage by JJ made it a lopsided fight to begin with.you can claim im a casual fan all you like but I don't listen to smoke and mirrors that you continually preach on here...by the way pad work doesn't measure power that's for accuracy.Frazier was at his best at 205...you do realize that's his natural weight...the weight he beat ali at right?and in the same Corso fashion you go on a rant about secret techniques about ali which has nothing to do with the topic?Using Tyson to think you wuill look better also makes you look desperate,tyson was and always will be the exception however continue on using Tyson as reference since he was 5'11 220 pounder anyway?lmao I fyou actually knew about weight distibuation you would know that no 5'11 guy weighing over 220 wouldn't really be as effective anyway.

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Old 05-10-2015, 06:07 PM #32
Ray Corso Ray Corso is offline
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Mike Tyson is NOT 5'11" never was or will be! To you these discussions are a "competition" and I do understand your "need" to "win"! hahahaha
It's all you have it seems, you get your butt handed to you every day because people are tired of your "competition rants"! Instead of discussing topics like adults you carry on on by insulting and degrading the men who actuall perform in the business. You might be the number one fan at ic here.
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Old 05-10-2015, 08:32 PM #33
Sugar Adam Ali Sugar Adam Ali is offline
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Physically they are about the same, tyson probably has the better chin


But frazier was much tougher mentally, really no contest in that department
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Old 05-10-2015, 08:57 PM #34
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Originally Posted by BKM-2010 View Post
I could never see the guys I mentioned lay on the canvas like he did against Schmeling and counted out. They'd faceplant while trying to get up or fall into the referee before semi accepting their faith like that.

If I'd add a dominant champion with a long streak, I'd say Holmes considering what he got up from against Shavers and still won and also surviving the beating against prime Holyfield. And only stopped once against Tyson when past his prime, and he was legit sparked there.
OK - I wouldn't count that against him. You've seen Holyfield stopped too. In worse circumstances than going out on his shield - sickness or not. Joe Louis was in incredibly hard fights. Fights where he was knocked down and behind on the scorecards. Billy Conn springs to mind. He might not have taken a punch as well as Evander Holyfield, but he was every bit as strong.

Interesting thing about these four guys, Ali, Holyfield, Frazier and Louis - They are all from the south. I don't think it's a coincidence.
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Old 05-10-2015, 09:18 PM #35
Sugar Adam Ali Sugar Adam Ali is offline
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Originally Posted by LacedUp View Post
OK - I wouldn't count that against him. You've seen Holyfield stopped too. In worse circumstances than going out on his shield - sickness or not. Joe Louis was in incredibly hard fights. Fights where he was knocked down and behind on the scorecards. Billy Conn springs to mind. He might not have taken a punch as well as Evander Holyfield, but he was every bit as strong.

Interesting thing about these four guys, Ali, Holyfield, Frazier and Louis - They are all from the south. I don't think it's a coincidence.
Wasn't frazier from philly?
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Old 05-10-2015, 09:34 PM #36
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Originally Posted by Sugar Adam Ali View Post
Wasn't frazier from philly?
Nah, he's from Beaufort, SC.

He moved to Philly at 18 or something like that. The man was picking cotton until his adolescence.
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Old 05-10-2015, 10:06 PM #37
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Originally Posted by Sugar Adam Ali View Post
Physically they are about the same, tyson probably has the better chin


But frazier was much tougher mentally, really no contest in that department
disagree. Frazier had an iron beard and fought live opponents. Tyson barely got hit in his early career and never fought anyone that really could.

Frazier got dropped by a prime George Foreman. Thats an entirely different caliber of puncher that's putting Joe Down. Tyson had a good chin but he went down to douglas and Lewis when he was past his best. Showed a good chin vs ruddock.

Still Frazier had more heart.
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Old 05-10-2015, 10:23 PM #38
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Mike Tyson is NOT 5'11" never was or will be! To you these discussions are a "competition" and I do understand your "need" to "win"! hahahaha
It's all you have it seems, you get your butt handed to you every day because people are tired of your "competition rants"! Instead of discussing topics like adults you carry on on by insulting and degrading the men who actuall perform in the business. You might be the number one fan at ic here.
Good luck, I had more fun here when I ignored you. Bye! Tired of your
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What exactly am I winning?i presented proof and logic ,you represent misinfornamtion thru ,you know how to throw basic punches?Anyway....back to the topic...Tyson was how tall is not the topic again ray I feel you are on meds half the time here...do you have anything else to add to the actual topic?


still waiting on your reasoning why weight is not important and do you think JJ had the weight advantage by 40 pounds or more had an advantage?

p.s you had more fun before I joined becuae I actually break it down to you other than Elroy,now you have at least two guys on here to call B.s when they see it,and even then when presented by a logical point you rant on off topic irrelevant B.S...I already know im in a convo with a wall or rock who cant really think...you still think Louis would beat the klitchkos?priceless...
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Old 05-10-2015, 10:30 PM #39
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Originally Posted by them_apples View Post
disagree. Frazier had an iron beard and fought live opponents. Tyson barely got hit in his early career and never fought anyone that really could.

Frazier got dropped by a prime George Foreman. Thats an entirely different caliber of puncher that's putting Joe Down. Tyson had a good chin but he went down to douglas and Lewis when he was past his best. Showed a good chin vs ruddock.

Still Frazier had more heart.
you do realize the shape you are in dictates the punch you will take after certain amounts of rounds right?douglas was 6'4 230and needed 10 rounds of continuous punishment to Tyson who obviously was tired and out of shape half way thru that fight...how much was Bonevena when he dropped Frazier 210?Maybe...really this is dumb...you really think Frazier had a better chin?highly doubt that,as a matter of fact ANYONE who says otherwise doesnt know boxing...they are watching frazier stand up to a light hitting HW in Ali...see guys like Ray wont tell you that the better legs you have the better punch you will absorb over tiome,i know this thuis is why and just one reason his weight theory is literally crushed.....anyway like I said frazier vs Tyson in toughness?sorry but Tyson is so much more physically advanced.

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Old 05-11-2015, 01:09 PM #40
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you do realize the shape you are in dictates the punch you will take after certain amounts of rounds right?douglas was 6'4 230and needed 10 rounds of continuous punishment to Tyson who obviously was tired and out of shape half way thru that fight...how much was Bonevena when he dropped Frazier 210?Maybe...really this is dumb...you really think Frazier had a better chin?highly doubt that,as a matter of fact ANYONE who says otherwise doesnt know boxing...they are watching frazier stand up to a light hitting HW in Ali...see guys like Ray wont tell you that the better legs you have the better punch you will absorb over tiome,i know this thuis is why and just one reason his weight theory is literally crushed.....anyway like I said frazier vs Tyson in toughness?sorry but Tyson is so much more physically advanced.
I agree with the first part, tyson was tired taking big heavy bag shots. However, bonavena was a big time hard puncher from argentina. He was like Marcos Maidana. I believe he dropped the iron chinned Chuvalo as well. Not that you care since you speak before thinking..but food for thought.

How is Ali so light hitting when he managed to stop George Foreman in his prime. When Foreman walked through Morrison and Holyfields punches like they were flies. I under stand Foreman was severely fatigued but still Ali had some pop when he wanted to. Before his first retirement he had a ko percentage in the 90 % range.

I don't understand how you give old fighters 0 credit. Yeah they lost at bad points during their career or near the end...but look how ****ty lennox lewis looked when a guy like Mccall koed him, or how sloppy and slow he looked against Vitali in his last fight. Even look at Wlad against that bum jennings, a man foreman or Frazier would stop in the first round.
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