Prime Liston vs Prime Tyson

[jiopsi]

you are arguing with a fool who claims Liston was FASTER than Tyson.....do the math...lol

Not really arguing but correcting the awful Pinklon argument.

I knew he was a troll already when I read the Prime Holmes Prime Tyson thread.

[abdelfadeel]

you are arguing with a fool who claims Liston was FASTER than Tyson.....do the math...lol

When did I ever make this statement? Guess I'll be in for a long wait..

[abdelfadeel]

Not really arguing but correcting the awful Pinklon argument.

I knew he was a troll already when I read the Prime Holmes Prime Tyson thread.

I need to see these "multiple times" Liston was ever knocked down. He was only Legitatemly down once at the tail end of his career when he had the flu. Until then, the only troll here is you.

[juggernaut666]

Not really arguing but correcting the awful Pinklon argument.

I knew he was a troll already when I read the Prime Holmes Prime Tyson thread.

That thread? what about Tyson vs Williams?

[juggernaut666]

When did I ever make this statement? Guess I'll be in for a long wait..

You reinforced that statement by POSTING the quote , claiming because scenile Dundee said it, it must be true and used it as a point.you even stated and made an excuse for Liston being green when he lost then mocked Tyson because he went the distance in his fight even though he won and to a better boxer? You could be in for a long wait, as a matter of fact you could be standing for a cab for a full year and they would all pass you by because you would miss them all and be standing probably another year if it were possible based on how intelligent your posts are.though you are a TAD smarter than kiwi that doesn't go that far...

[juggernaut666]

Lol what is your obsession with weight? I don't care about it in relation to the thread I'm just talking about in general. Every time something is about an 80s heavyweight vs a fighter from an earlier era, you always bring up weight. At Heavyweight weight doesn't matter that much. If it did Louis would have been knocked out by Carnera! No hate just wanted to know the reasoning.

My obsession is he claimed Huge Liston would beat SMALL Tyson, which isn't the case since Tyson outweighed him both in and out of primes,tyson weighed as much as 235 though that weight would make Tyson less of a favorite since Tyson used speed first which at 218 would easily make him the odds on favorite to win and can see this 10 to 1 odds. SIZE is also a significant factor because Sonny RELIED on being the stronger guy in the ring , otherwise he would have lost to Williams who was beating Liston until Listons physical strength wore him down. Liston vs a heavier talent would not have beat a BIGGER Cleveland Williams who would have the extra girth to most likely k.o Liston.the match was competitive because they were the about the SAME weight... So you are now comparing Carnera to liston? When Carnera only had a 50% k.o record....are you telling me liston cant knock out Louis?


Like it or not WEIGHT plays an IMPORTANT factor in a matches and certainly on the fighter themselves...I don't need a reasoning because that's why they made weight classes and why no one under 220 can be a Hw champion today or even if you had one what percentage would that be on average?.....who was the last TRUE HW champion under the 220 mark. Why do you think fury beat cunninham? Was it skill or the fact Cunninham couldn't put the giant down for good? did you see the Ortiz vs Jennings fight? How successful was Cruiserweight champion holyfield against bowe,he went 1 for 2 and he was the much better boxer ?You can have successful fighters that weight ,but can the past time or even modern boxers actually break a top 10 spot? Haye is now over or about 230 for a reason,and that was the lightest skilled guy of this era. How skilled was 230 pound Gallento....? I will tell you ALL his opponents combined had averaged 130 losses before fighting him and roughly FIFTY guys had lost prior to fighting him....yet this sloppy drunk of a fighter knocked down Louis TWICE.....was that skill or simply the fact he was huge dead weight coming at Louis with a left hook being thrown from ten feet away?

Its not about Weight its about how fighters would do against heavier guys in other eras if the comparison is there to be made...this is very simple to figure out the most PROBABLE outcome if you know actual boxing and leave out nostalgic or fan boy bias. it would take a very special talent to beat these modern Heavies being under the 220 mark or even 220 itself...it you can reference a fluke fight here and there but at the end of the day guys like Haye even knew when to call it quits fighting below that mark.and yes the Only guy I think that could win and defend a title under the 220 mark fighting the top guys is Tyson, maybe Holyfield.

[juggernaut666]

Like I said, they were ALL bums.
I don't see any Floyd Pattersons in there, the first man to win the World Heavyweight crown twice.
When did Tyson ever fight anyone of that calibre in the 1980's?
He didn't.
Liston creamed him twice.
Pinklon Thomas? OMG, Tyrell Biggs??? that guy was appalling.
Have you seen what Lennox did to some of those fighters when he was coming up through the ranks?
You have accurately collated a list of Bums.
Berbick? Really?
Spinks?
He was a poor light heavyweight never mind a heavy weight.
If you really rate those fighters then you have a very low bar setting for quality.
Tyson was a piranha among sprats.
As soon as one of the sprats showed some courage he was blasted outta there and the myth was debunked.
Buster Douglas was a bum.
One good fight against a tiring bully and back to bumsville to fight Holyfield and limply hand his title over....
Tyson was over hyped and the fools out there were conned by it.
He cleaned up a weak division of very poor 'talent'.
Yes you can only fight whats in front of you but when it's all poor you end up with situations like John Ruiz winning a world title.

The 1980's had the best technical talent prior to the 90's. You don't know what you are talking about. Berbick was on a 7 fight win streak or so...Buster Douglas was also and had just beat Oliver McCall...didn't he knock out Lewis who was the most dominate champion of the 90's era once? Even Tubbs took Bowe the distance in the 90's....you are a simpleton...Tyson brutalized Frank Bruno...didn't Bruno wobble Lewis and was in an even fight with him in 7 rounds? Razor Ruddock ? Ac carbon copy of Cleveland Williams with about 30 pounds more...these are even 1990's fights against more dangerous punchers than Liston was ..Holmes at age 43 took Holyfield the distance, how long did 38 year old Holmes last with an actual PRIME Tyson? Bums ?

[Pugilist_Spec]

Only guy I think that could win and defend a title under the 220 mark fighting the top guys is Tyson, maybe Holyfield.

Holmes ?

[abdelfadeel]

You reinforced that statement by POSTING the quote , claiming because scenile Dundee said it, it must be true and used it as a point.you even stated and made an excuse for Liston being green when he lost then mocked Tyson because he went the distance in his fight even though he won and to a better boxer? You could be in for a long wait, as a matter of fact you could be standing for a cab for a full year and they would all pass you by because you would miss them all and be standing probably another year if it were possible based on how intelligent your posts are.though you are a TAD smarter than kiwi that doesn't go that far...

Oh no. Now I remember you. You're that troll who got banned from east side boxing. Not only were you banned, but your accounts completely deleted from existence. I will spend no more time feeding the troll I already got wrapped around my leash.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

My obsession is he claimed Huge Liston would beat SMALL Tyson, which isn't the case since Tyson outweighed him both in and out of primes,tyson weighed as much as 235 though that weight would make Tyson less of a favorite since Tyson used speed first which at 218 would easily make him the odds on favorite to win and can see this 10 to 1 odds. SIZE is also a significant factor because Sonny RELIED on being the stronger guy in the ring , otherwise he would have lost to Williams who was beating Liston until Listons physical strength wore him down. Liston vs a heavier talent would not have beat a BIGGER Cleveland Williams who would have the extra girth to most likely k.o Liston.the match was competitive because they were the about the SAME weight... So you are now comparing Carnera to liston? When Carnera only had a 50% k.o record....are you telling me liston cant knock out Louis?


Like it or not WEIGHT plays an IMPORTANT factor in a matches and certainly on the fighter themselves...I don't need a reasoning because that's why they made weight classes and why no one under 220 can be a Hw champion today or even if you had one what percentage would that be on average?.....who was the last TRUE HW champion under the 220 mark. Why do you think fury beat cunninham? Was it skill or the fact Cunninham couldn't put the giant down for good? did you see the Ortiz vs Jennings fight? How successful was Cruiserweight champion holyfield against bowe,he went 1 for 2 and he was the much better boxer ?You can have successful fighters that weight ,but can the past time or even modern boxers actually break a top 10 spot? Haye is now over or about 230 for a reason,and that was the lightest skilled guy of this era. How skilled was 230 pound Gallento....? I will tell you ALL his opponents combined had averaged 130 losses before fighting him and roughly FIFTY guys had lost prior to fighting him....yet this sloppy drunk of a fighter knocked down Louis TWICE.....was that skill or simply the fact he was huge dead weight coming at Louis with a left hook being thrown from ten feet away?

Its not about Weight its about how fighters would do against heavier guys in other eras if the comparison is there to be made...this is very simple to figure out the most PROBABLE outcome if you know actual boxing and leave out nostalgic or fan boy bias. it would take a very special talent to beat these modern Heavies being under the 220 mark or even 220 itself...it you can reference a fluke fight here and there but at the end of the day guys like Haye even knew when to call it quits fighting below that mark.and yes the Only guy I think that could win and defend a title under the 220 mark fighting the top guys is Tyson, maybe Holyfield.

That's a very good point. You're right when saying we never saw Liston against anyone of Tyson's size. Tyson would rip through Liston's resume aside from Ali.