When did Heavyweight stop using 8oz gloves?

[The Old LefHook]

One of the reasons the AIBA didn't introduce 10 ounce gloves at the 1968 Olympics in Mexico was because their medical officers deemed them to be "only" 18% safer than 8 ounce gloves - apparently not significant enough to compensate for the perceived negative impact on the boxers' skills.

No idea where they got those figures or their accuracy, but interesting that they rejected it on grounds of skill impediment.

You provide some great details. So how much impact (no pun intended) do you believe that the 66% increase in glove weight from 6 to 10 oz. has affected KO's and safety?

[Ray Corso]

The larger glove size/weight always favors the bigger puncher if his margin of power is that much greater than an opponent.
Picture the damage done by a 12 pound sledge then add a 16 lb.
More weight added to a greater force equal more damage.
I personally think that a 10 oz is ok for men above 175lb.
But a 10 oz on a 147 welter is ridiculous, they should have 8 oz gloves with
atleast a 1/3 supporting the wrists.
Loved the old Reyes and Ben Bow even the Everlasts from the 60's 8 oz gloves.

Ray

[joeandthebums]

You provide some great details. So how much impact (no pun intended) do you believe that the 66% increase in glove weight from 6 to 10 oz. has affected KO's and safety?

1924 - 22~ deaths from 22859* bouts = 0.096%

1944 - 8~ deaths from 15660* bouts = 0.051%

1964 - 15~ deaths from 9675* bouts = 0.155%

1984 - 5~ deaths from 12581* bouts = 0.039%

2004 - 9~ deaths from 18406* bouts = 0.048%

~ current record of boxing fatalities
* current record of boxing bouts

That is across the board, Heavyweight's account for roughly 8% of the listed deaths and "only" around 70% are from professional contests.

Just going by the numbers it does seem to have had very little to no impact on ring fatalities but that of course does not take into consideration other physical injuries received.

As for knock-outs, I don't really have any data at present available.

The larger glove size/weight always favors the bigger puncher if his margin of power is that much greater than an opponent.
Picture the damage done by a 12 pound sledge then add a 16 lb.
More weight added to a greater force equal more damage.

Punchers throughout history have always sought the smallest gloves possible. They only put on the big gloves for sparring and exhibitions.

6 ounce gloves at the lowest weight classes were stopped as late as the early 1990's due to boxers complaining about the dangers of a glove that size.

[The Old LefHook]

All gloves should be six ounces and all rings should be ten X ten and all championship fights should be fifteen rounds. That will clear the wusses out. The boxers are going to end up punch drunk anyway, sounding like Paul Newman in the Hemingway story. I demand blood in a blood sport. I demand brains hanging out the ear.

Maybe if you hit a man too hard in a fight the fighter should be disqualified for hitting too hard. Yeah, that's it. Send it to Sulliedman for approval.

[joeandthebums]

All gloves should be six ounces and all rings should be ten X ten and all championship fights should be fifteen rounds. That will clear the wusses out. The boxers are going to end up punch drunk anyway, sounding like Paul Newman in the Hemingway story. I demand blood in a blood sport. I demand brains hanging out the ear.

Maybe if you hit a man too hard in a fight the fighter should be disqualified for hitting too hard. Yeah, that's it. Send it to Sulliedman for approval.

I agree with 15 round championship contests and could see an argument for the return of 6 ounce gloves - but neither are the type of thing to be reintroduced.

I'm trying to take your comments here; on brain damage and other previous ones; on race, as humour - is that how they are intended to be?

[Rockin']

The change in gloves, 2 ounces heavier, as well as the move from 15 round title bouts happened shortly after Mancini/Kim. The fight being televised caused great concern in the general public.

[The Old LefHook]

I agree with 15 round championship contests and could see an argument for the return of 6 ounce gloves - but neither are the type of thing to be reintroduced.

I'm trying to take your comments here; on brain damage and other previous ones; on race, as humour - is that how they are intended to be?

On race? I do not remember that. Perhaps you are overly sensitive in that area and inclined to extreme interpretation.

The brain damage comment is certainly not a joke, sir. Just because a fighter does not end up needing to be fed and bathed by others does not mean he has not incurred brain damage. Vitrually all boxers will end up with some brain degradation. This is not ice skating, sir. Brain damage is a natural side effect of being punched hundreds of times. It is well known by now that football and soccer players will have the same side effects.

We make our choice to view or not view, support or not support boxing based on this knowledge and many other factors. I made my decision, I watch and support boxing. But I am not going to be a little yes man with boxing any more than I will kowtow to the poker industry by agreeing with their transparent promotion of poker as an all-American, wholesome activity for everyone.

Can you tell me sincerely that Roy Jones does not presently have brain damage? Are you going to beg off by saying you are not a doctor? I could make a very long list of afflicted boxers, all of them worse than Jones.

You have guys like LaMotta and Chuvalo who took more punches than three men yet remain clear and lucid to the end. Then you have the other guys. The ones who will not be invited on the lecture circuit. James Toney will not be on the speaking tour.

This is not volleyball. I really should be the one asking if you are kidding.

[Humean]

On race? I do not remember that. Perhaps you are overly sensitive in that area and inclined to extreme interpretation.

The brain damage comment is certainly not a joke, sir. Just because a fighter does not end up needing to be fed and bathed by others does not mean he has not incurred brain damage. Vitrually all boxers will end up with some brain degradation. This is not ice skating, sir. Brain damage is a natural side effect of being punched hundreds of times. It is well known by now that football and soccer players will have the same side effects.

We make our choice to view or not view, support or not support boxing based on this knowledge and many other factors. I made my decision, I watch and support boxing. But I am not going to be a little yes man with boxing any more than I will kowtow to the poker industry by agreeing with their transparent promotion of poker as an all-American, wholesome activity for everyone.

Can you tell me sincerely that Roy Jones does not presently have brain damage? Are you going to beg off by saying you are not a doctor? I could make a very long list of afflicted boxers, all of them worse than Jones.

You have guys like LaMotta and Chuvalo who took more punches than three men yet remain clear and lucid to the end. Then you have the other guys. The ones who will not be invited on the lecture circuit. James Toney will not be on the speaking tour.

This is not volleyball. I really should be the one asking if you are kidding.

So you are inferring from the correct premise that getting punched in the head is going to cause some, however minor or major, brain damage to the conclusion that it doesn't therefore matter how much damage is caused?

[joeandthebums]

On race? I do not remember that. Perhaps you are overly sensitive in that area and inclined to extreme interpretation.

No I am not, nor do believe I came across as such.

Possible Translation of Fleschier: You blacks can't act that way, dont you know it's unbecoming? Be a good boy and don't make white people resent you. I am saying it for your own good and for your boxing.

Was Robinson an honorary white man?

The principal of my grade school was an honorary white man. His education and his demeanor were so advanced our hillybilly parents knew they were lucky.

Hey, we will take a few, that's all, the two greatest of their "race," and coddle and groom them for citizenship as white men. In every photo op they were surrounded by smiling, elderly white men in business suits, who handed them an award and told them they were awfully good n*g*ers for supporting this or that charitable cause, substituting honorary white men, then accepted a pledge for their whole next purse.

Looked at this way, Robinson avoided his black Murderer's Row because it was not proper for whites to asscociate (be in the ring) with blacks too much. What if you lost your title to a black, did you ever think of that? People would lable you a traitor to your race.

Robinson was not as pliable as Louis in this repect. Joe was a perfect "good n*g*er," but Robinson was wont to balk at control sometimes, he wanted to do things his way. He was a difficult negotiator of fight contracts. Joe just wanted to know when he was supposed to fight.

When Robinson found out that blacks were not allowed to attend an exhibition he and Louis were scheduled to give in the army, it was he who complained to Louis and refused to fight. The chain of command went from Robinson to Louis, who relayed the issue to commanders. Som'bitzen is no white man, he's been acting like one for the benefits.

I had no idea Tommy Bell was black. It is good to see all those names. That ought to dispel the notion that whites are afraid of blacks.

Robby and Louis were not fooled. They figured they were both black men, but had no proof. The best way to prove that is to see if white men get mad when you date one of their sisters.

I said they were both honorary white men, I didn't say they thought so. If I do not make such statements, who will tell me if Bob Arum is black. He is, isn't he? I have eyes but I would like to know for sure.

It the above an opinion or a form of humour?

The brain damage comment is certainly not a joke, sir. Just because a fighter does not end up needing to be fed and bathed by others does not mean he has not incurred brain damage. Vitrually all boxers will end up with some brain degradation.

Can you tell me sincerely that Roy Jones does not presently have brain damage? Are you going to beg off by saying you are not a doctor? I could make a very long list of afflicted boxers, all of them worse than Jones.

This is not volleyball. I really should be the one asking if you are kidding.

Unlike other sports the basic intent in boxing is to produce bodily harm in the opponent. Boxing can result in death and produce an alarming incidence of chronic brain injury and eye, ear and nose damage.

The evidence indicates that boxing not only causes acute brain injury but also chronic brain damage, which is sustained cumulatively in those who have a career in boxing, regardless of monetary status. It may take many years before boxers and ex-boxers find out they are suffering from brain damage.

We as fans should be aware of the dangers, the same as all boxers; amateurs and professionals should be aware of the repercussions - but there is being aware and then there is making statements such as this;

The boxers are going to end up punch drunk anyway, sounding like Paul Newman in the Hemingway story. I demand blood in a blood sport. I demand brains hanging out the ear.

[BattlingNelson]

1924 - 22~ deaths from 22859* bouts = 0.096%

1944 - 8~ deaths from 15660* bouts = 0.051%

1964 - 15~ deaths from 9675* bouts = 0.155%

1984 - 5~ deaths from 12581* bouts = 0.039%

2004 - 9~ deaths from 18406* bouts = 0.048%

~ current record of boxing fatalities
* current record of boxing bouts

That is across the board, Heavyweight's account for roughly 8% of the listed deaths and "only" around 70% are from professional contests.

Just going by the numbers it does seem to have had very little to no impact on ring fatalities but that of course does not take into consideration other physical injuries received.

As for knock-outs, I don't really have any data at present available.



Punchers throughout history have always sought the smallest gloves possible. They only put on the big gloves for sparring and exhibitions.

6 ounce gloves at the lowest weight classes were stopped as late as the early 1990's due to boxers complaining about the dangers of a glove that size.

As always some good insights from you.

May I ask where these statistics are from and maybe you can give your take on the validity. It seems odd that the number of bouts in 2004 is twice that of 1964 where one would think there would be more fighters and that they where fighting more often. If the validity is compromised the statistic as base of decisionmaking goes Down the drain as the number of deaths most likely is correct (but the number of bouts is not).