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Old 02-29-2020, 03:15 AM #41
World Champion World Champion is offline
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Originally Posted by Kezzer View Post
wilder has had a good reign, but he has been maneavoured to avoid the top end opponents.
That's simply not true. He flew overseas to fight Povetkin. In Russia. The only reason he never fought Povetkin is because Povetkin failed multiple drug tests and lost out on two title shots because of it.

He made two VOLUNTARY defenses against King Kong Ortiz. The guy nobody wants to fight. This site was littered with posts saying Wilder would never face Ortiz, would always duck Ortiz, then as soon as he signs to fight him, everyone pretended they never said that.

He agreed to make two VOLUNTARY defenses against Tyson Fury (the second one was made into a mandatory later when Dillian Whyte failed a drug test).

He agreed to go to the UK for 15 million flat, one of the most ridiculous low ball offers in the history of boxing, because he was so desperate to fight Anthony Joshua. Hearn was so shocked that Wilder would actually accept an offer that was only made to try to kill the fight, that Hearn had to scramble to find excuses to still not make the fight.

Your premise simply isn't true. The fact that Wilder reached #1 in Boxrec proves he was beating tougher fighters than almost anyone on the planet. Even now, his reign is only over because he agreed to face the top challenger out there. Joshua's reign was ended by an unranked fighter who was cherry picked as an easy defense. Wilder's reign may have finally ended after 5 years and 10 successful defenses, but at least it ended the way it's supposed to, losing to the guy everyone says is the best.
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Old 02-29-2020, 03:46 AM #42
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Originally Posted by World Champion View Post
That's simply not true. He flew overseas to fight Povetkin. In Russia. The only reason he never fought Povetkin is because Povetkin failed multiple drug tests and lost out on two title shots because of it.

He made two VOLUNTARY defenses against King Kong Ortiz. The guy nobody wants to fight. This site was littered with posts saying Wilder would never face Ortiz, would always duck Ortiz, then as soon as he signs to fight him, everyone pretended they never said that.

He agreed to make two VOLUNTARY defenses against Tyson Fury (the second one was made into a mandatory later when Dillian Whyte failed a drug test).

He agreed to go to the UK for 15 million flat, one of the most ridiculous low ball offers in the history of boxing, because he was so desperate to fight Anthony Joshua. Hearn was so shocked that Wilder would actually accept an offer that was only made to try to kill the fight, that Hearn had to scramble to find excuses to still not make the fight.

Your premise simply isn't true. The fact that Wilder reached #1 in Boxrec proves he was beating tougher fighters than almost anyone on the planet. Even now, his reign is only over because he agreed to face the top challenger out there. Joshua's reign was ended by an unranked fighter who was cherry picked as an easy defense. Wilder's reign may have finally ended after 5 years and 10 successful defenses, but at least it ended the way it's supposed to, losing to the guy everyone says is the best.
Your deluded.

Povetkin fight was mandatory - never happened.

Joshua claim he would fight as far fetched as best , we all know the negiotiations and how he also turned down $100-120mil.

Ortiz was his first step up, and even he is an unknown level of quantity to many because of his own lack of opponents. In my view he was over hyped - others think he was a “boogeyman” - reality is it was lack of $$$ which is why he wasn’t fighting opponents. He did of course turn down a fight against Joshua so did have an opportunity.

Again - props for taking fury on. There is debate whether he thought he was taking him on at the right time (in hindsight obviously a mistake if he did) - but he still took him on.

He started stepping up last 18 months or so, that doesn’t stop the truth that he has been avoiding top level opponents.

Parker unification - didn’t happen
Povetkin fight - didn’t happen
Klitschko - “I’m not ready”
Whyte - “you can wait until I’m forced to fight”
Joshua - “I can make more money”


Don’t get me wrong, I hope he does continue his more recent approach because I do think he came come back - and if he were to fight the likes of Ruiz, Parker and Whyte before he retires we can all agree he has then taken on a good number of decent level opponents and can truly reflect on where he ranks with strong resume backing
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Old 02-29-2020, 04:39 AM #43
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Originally Posted by MoneyKasha View Post
to be fair, how many top 10 fighters did Wlad beat during his reign... do we criticize Wilder's resume too much?
Wow, no we don't criticise wilders resume too much, it stinks. There wasn't really anybody Wlad didn't fighter in his era where as Wilder seems to of managed to face 1 top name only in over 40 fights and he got twatted against that 1 top name.

Luis ortiz is a good win, it proves wilders no fraud but at the same time it's a good but not amazing cuz ortiz has done what exactly.
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Old 02-29-2020, 11:08 AM #44
KingHippo KingHippo is offline
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Originally Posted by MoneyKasha View Post
why would you say that.... all your saying is a hypothetical.

Besides Stiverne, the only top 10 fighters Wilder has faced have been Ortiz and Fury, and he struggeled to hell with Ortiz and of course got beat by Fury.

there is a reason this man has avoided the best of his division,
He fought the best in the division twice. Getting low balled by a protected cash cow is avoidance on their part, not his.

Comparing resumes is highly subjective. Some people give more importance to wins than embarrassing loses, when their favorite fighter is involved, of course. Others get thrown in the coals after one loss. Successful defenses against contenders in a mediocre era or cruisers coming up doesn't make up for losing to Ross Purrity and Lamon Brewster in my eyes.
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Old 02-29-2020, 12:42 PM #45
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Originally Posted by KingHippo View Post
He fought the best in the division twice. Getting low balled by a protected cash cow is avoidance on their part, not his.

Comparing resumes is highly subjective. Some people give more importance to wins than embarrassing loses, when their favorite fighter is involved, of course. Others get thrown in the coals after one loss. Successful defenses against contenders in a mediocre era or cruisers coming up doesn't make up for losing to Ross Purrity and Lamon Brewster in my eyes.
Wilder has one of the worst resumes for a champ ever. he only fought 5 top 10 guys.... Stivern once, Ortiz twice and Fury twice.

Ortiz gave him fits both fights, and Fury won both fights..

Wlad dominated for a decade and was beating top contenders left and right. People get allured by fighters being "undefeated" but anyone can be undefeated if they don't fight the best
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Old 02-29-2020, 01:07 PM #46
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Originally Posted by Real King Kong View Post
Lol...I was a big fan of Saunders after that fight. I still remember how distraught vitali looked in the corner...then he was staring Saunders down in the ring afterwards.
Then he beat Sanders a$$ mercilessly
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Old 02-29-2020, 08:14 PM #47
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Originally Posted by Kezzer View Post
Povetkin fight was mandatory - never happened.
Fighters drop belts all the time when they're being maneuvered to avoid top fighters. Haymon could have had Wilder vacate and instead fight Martin for the IBF. Wilder agreeing to fight Povetkin in one of the world's most corrupt countries suggests that you're not telling the truth about Wilder being maneuvered to avoid top fighters.


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Joshua claim he would fight as far fetched as best
It's not far fetched at all. By Hearn's own admission, he didn't expect Wilder to accept 15 flat to go to the UK and was caught off guard when Wilder accepted. Wilder accepting such a ridiculous low ball offer suggests that you're not telling the truth about Wilder being maneuvered to avoid top fighters.

Wilder also called Joshua's bluff and offered him the 50 million he wanted, even though it meant Wilder was risking taking a much lower cut if the PPV wasn't a humongous success. Wilder agreeing to give Joshua 50 million suggests that you're not telling the truth about Wilder being maneuvered to avoid top fighters.


Quote:
Ortiz was his first step up, and even he is an unknown level of quantity to many because of his own lack of opponents. In my view he was over hyped - others think he was a “boogeyman” - reality is it was lack of $$$ which is why he wasn’t fighting opponents.
Ortiz knocked out Jennings when Jennings was #8 in the world. Nobody wanted to fight Ortiz. Like you admit, it was high risk/low reward. Wilder insisting on making a voluntary defense against him, struggling, and then insisting on a rematch as well suggests that you're not telling the truth about Wilder being maneuvered to avoid top fighters.


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Parker unification - didn’t happen
Heavily pursued by Wilder. Wilder even offered to fill in on short notice when Parker had an opponent fall through. Parker's team avoided the fight because they knew cashing out against Joshua would be more lucrative.


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Povetkin fight - didn’t happen
Wilder agreed to the fight and flew overseas. Didn't happen because Povetkin cheated. Not sure how you count that as Wilder being maneuvered to avoid top fighters. You listing that as an example shows how ridiculously biased you are.


Quote:
Klitschko - “I’m not ready”
Klitsckho already signed to fight Jennings on HBO while Wilder was waiting for his mandatory shot against Stiverne. Another ridiculous example.


Quote:
Whyte - “you can wait until I’m forced to fight”
A fight nobody in the US wanted to see. A fight no network in the US wanted. Nobody in the US has any idea who Whyte is and couldn't care less. Please name a fighter who is in a rush to fight a non in-house mandatory against an absolutely nobody in a fight that's not lucrative and nobody wants to see. Meanwhile, Whyte refused to fight a final eliminator and even earn his shot to begin with.


Quote:
Joshua - “I can make more money”
Wilder agreed to the 50 million Joshua wanted, Joshua ducked. Wilder agree to the 15 million Joshua wanted, Joshua ducked. You're living in an alternate reality.
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Old 02-29-2020, 11:23 PM #48
KingHippo KingHippo is offline
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Originally Posted by MoneyKasha View Post
Wilder has one of the worst resumes for a champ ever. he only fought 5 top 10 guys.... Stivern once, Ortiz twice and Fury twice.

Ortiz gave him fits both fights, and Fury won both fights..

Wlad dominated for a decade and was beating top contenders left and right. People get allured by fighters being "undefeated" but anyone can be undefeated if they don't fight the best
And still Klitshcko lost to trash?

Wilder fought who he had to. Never ducked his mandatory obligations. Wlad has dominated contenders and blown up cruisers from one of the worst eras and lost to bums.

Arthur Spilzka and Malik Scott were top contenders when Wilder beat them. Oscar Rivas, Trevor Bryan, Kubrat Pulev, Agit Kabayel, and Adam Kownacki are all top contenders today. How would these scalps could toward's Wilder's resume?
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Old 03-01-2020, 01:44 PM #49
MoneyKasha MoneyKasha is offline
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And still Klitshcko lost to trash?

Wilder fought who he had to. Never ducked his mandatory obligations. Wlad has dominated contenders and blown up cruisers from one of the worst eras and lost to bums.

Arthur Spilzka and Malik Scott were top contenders when Wilder beat them. Oscar Rivas, Trevor Bryan, Kubrat Pulev, Agit Kabayel, and Adam Kownacki are all top contenders today. How would these scalps could toward's Wilder's resume?
Arthur Spilzka and Malik Scott were NOT top contenders

the only ranked fighters Wilder fought during his reign were Stiverne and Ortiz (twice) and Fury (twice)

Wlad fought the best, he fought everyone
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Old 03-01-2020, 01:47 PM #50
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to be fair, how many top 10 fighters did Wlad beat during his reign... do we criticize Wilder's resume too much?
- -U takin' a dump the most productive thing U ever figured to do.
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