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Old 11-22-2019, 12:30 PM #51
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and drop dead ginger granny, just die
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Old 11-22-2019, 12:48 PM #52
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Originally Posted by john l View Post
Right behind Foreman probably. I always thought Shavers was a LITTLE overrated as far as his power. A good deal of his reputation came from Ali who built him up a bit with some of what he said" Hit so hard shook my kinfolk back in Africa". I think Ali did this for 2 reasons. 1st Shavers did hit like a truck, and 2nd it was a way to defect from Foreman who Ali did not want to fight again after 3rd Frazier fight in 75 which all but finished Ali. The Shavers fight was in 77, and by that time Ali did not have much left. Tua could really hit with the hook, but not on Wilder's level imo. Foreman had heaviest hands in history imo, and could punch with both hands. Wilder has more "snap" power much like a T Hearns. Its close, but I would still take Foreman with Wilder the 2nd hardest all time. Without a doubt though we are witnessing one of the most dangerous puncher's in history, and its a shame all the haters are missing it. Who hates a HUGE punching guy with a NASTY killer instinct??? No matter how bad his skills are compared to other top heavys in history.
Excellent post; good observations. Itís hard to say whoís really the hardest hitter, as thereís just no way to prove it, but Wilder is definitely in the conversation for hardest puncher ever. And like you say, the haters are really missing it. The first time I watched Deontay fight I couldnít understand what people were missing. The man clearly has tremendous power. No mistaking it.
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Old 11-22-2019, 12:55 PM #53
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Shavers hit harder than Foreman he almost koed Ali with 1 punch, Foreman didnt come close to doing that neither did lyle, foreman got some flush head shots too, Lyle hit harder than foreman also, its obvious everyone has a consistent story and u can see the results , foreman was a better overall fighter because he had other attributes like a good chin, but this is about pp

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Old 11-22-2019, 01:07 PM #54
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Foreman can come forward liek a wrecking ball smashing everyone to pieces Shavers didnt have the chin for that or teh stamina although though I would loved to have seen it if he did

also he had longer arms which makes it more difficult to do what foreman did its hard to control those things, slower to combo up, but the end of the punches wow and foremans left was pretty awesome too shavers seemed to rely mostly on his right although he had a good left he just didnt use it liek foreman

Think long arms are harder to hook w ith too

fuk foreman had longer reach but its still the same liek compared to the rest of him his arms were not long, shavers had long arms compared to the rest of him , foreman was just a bigger guy


aNYWAY ENOUGH RAMBLING im tired of this

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Old 11-22-2019, 07:06 PM #55
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Excellent post; good observations. It’s hard to say who’s really the hardest hitter, as there’s just no way to prove it, but Wilder is definitely in the conversation for hardest puncher ever. And like you say, the haters are really missing it. The first time I watched Deontay fight I couldn’t understand what people were missing. The man clearly has tremendous power. No mistaking it.
Thx a lot.Agree with everything. Wilder has also shown a big heart, and courage to take some of these fights. What manager would have fought Ortiz while trying to get the huge payday with AJ. Then he pizzes dirty, and Wilder has the PERFECT excuse to now avoid him, but ends up fighting him in next fight. Who would then fight Ortiz again with big money fight with Fury next? Not Fury although I don't blame him because he is now taking the Wilder rematch, but he did not take the risk Wilder is. Really one of the biggest "real dog" moves in boxing of late, along with Rodriquez fighting Nery after the Inoue fight. AJ was the REAL big money fight, and you really have to respect him for facing the two hardest guys to beat, and almost impossible to look good against(Southpaw with 300 am fights, and a 6-9 switchhitter who moves and fights like no one in division)
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Old 11-22-2019, 07:17 PM #56
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Shavers hit harder than Foreman he almost koed Ali with 1 punch, Foreman didnt come close to doing that neither did lyle, foreman got some flush head shots too, Lyle hit harder than foreman also, its obvious everyone has a consistent story and u can see the results , foreman was a better overall fighter because he had other attributes like a good chin, but this is about pp
I disagree about Shavers hitting harder then Foreman, but its not out of the question. The one thing about your post that I think is off is comparing the Ali that fought GF to the one that fought Shavers. Ali was in the best shape of his 2nd career vs GF in 74(could make argument for Frazier 1). Ali was really done after Manila in 75, and would not fight Shavers until 77. There is a BIG difference between those 2 Ali's. Also you say Shavers "almost KOed Ali with one punch" well that's debatable, but Frazier hurt him worse imo, and he don't hit quite like either. Again don't think your opinion is out of line, but your reasoning for it is flawed imo.
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Old 11-22-2019, 07:21 PM #57
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Thx a lot.Agree with everything. Wilder has also shown a big heart, and courage to take some of these fights. What manager would have fought Ortiz while trying to get the huge payday with AJ. Then he pizzes dirty, and Wilder has the PERFECT excuse to now avoid him, but ends up fighting him in next fight. Who would then fight Ortiz again with big money fight with Fury next? Not Fury although I don't blame him because he is now taking the Wilder rematch, but he did not take the risk Wilder is. Really one of the biggest "real dog" moves in boxing of late, along with Rodriquez fighting Nery after the Inoue fight. AJ was the REAL big money fight, and you really have to respect him for facing the two hardest guys to beat, and almost impossible to look good against(Southpaw with 300 am fights, and a 6-9 switchhitter who moves and fights like no one in division)
Yes. Again, people like to downplay Ortiz because of his age, but Wilder was the only one who stepped up. Ortiz showed how dangerous he was by almost stopping Deontay in the seventh. Now they want to say AJ was willing to fight him, but that was on short notice. Even now, I donít see anyone clamoring to fight Luis, old or not.
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Old 11-22-2019, 07:47 PM #58
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Yes. Again, people like to downplay Ortiz because of his age, but Wilder was the only one who stepped up. Ortiz showed how dangerous he was by almost stopping Deontay in the seventh. Now they want to say AJ was willing to fight him, but that was on short notice. Even now, I don’t see anyone clamoring to fight Luis, old or not.
Good points! Yea its clear Hearn wanted nothing to do with Ortiz. He is REALLY good working the press, and seeming like he is trying to make certain fights. Boxing is a small world, and Hearn KNEW when he put that out about tying to get Ortiz that Ortiz was already in talks about the Wilder rematch. Hearn had Ortiz under contract and STILL did not make that fight. During the whole AJ v Wilder talks he played with Wilder(who does his own speaking without a full time promoter, and a manager that don't speak to press) like a cat plays with a mouse. How do you see fight ending up? I think Ortiz finally showed his age in his last fight, it looked to me he was really feeling the punches. That being said Ortiz is still really dangerous. I see I similar start with Ortiz shading the 1st few rds, but Wilder catching him around the same time(5th-6th)and this time Ortiz don't survive. Tough fight though, and would not bet house.

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Old 11-22-2019, 07:52 PM #59
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Good points! Yea its clear Hearn wanted nothing to do with Ortiz. He is REALLY good working the press, and seeming like he is trying to make certain fights. Boxing is a small world, and Hearn KNEW when he put that out about tying to get Ortiz that Ortiz was already in talks about the Wilder rematch. Hearn had Ortiz under contract and STILL did not make that fight. During the whole AJ v Wilder talks he played with Wilder(who does his own speaking without a full time promoter, and a manager that don't speak to press) like a cat plays with a mouse.
Yessir.
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Old 11-22-2019, 07:59 PM #60
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Yessir.
How do you see it playing out? I think Ortiz was showing his age in his last fight, but not shot. I see Ortiz getting off to another good start, and shading 1st few rds, but Wilder catching him around same time(5th-6th)and this time finishing him. Tough fight though and would not bet house on it.
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