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Old 06-19-2019, 12:22 AM #1
MartialMind MartialMind is offline
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Default 1960's Ali vs 1970's Ali?

I'm referring to Ali from 1964 to 1967 vs his post exile period from 1971-1976.

How would you compare these two incarnations of Ali? Was he better the first time around or was there something about his more mature years that gave him an edge he didn't have before?

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Old 06-19-2019, 04:50 AM #2
PRINCEKOOL PRINCEKOOL is offline
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He was more tested in the 1970's. but probably a better fighter in the 1960's. 'That is what made Ali great, during the 70's he was not at his best but he achieved his greatest feats'.

He seemed to always just trained to the ability of his opponent in the 70's, it is a known fact that he was a lazy trainer 'Basically trained himself, Dundee was more of a psychologist to him, a great psychologist' Muhammad Ali was in charge, but I guess that is the way it has to be.
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Old 06-19-2019, 06:17 AM #3
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- -64/5 was his hoax and hysteria phase with Liston where he came out NOI, changed his name with much negative press. He was lucky the docs gave him a 2nd chance after he flunked the 1st Sonny physical.

66/7 he was full prime and busy perfecting his style.

In 71 he was at his peak athletic prime, but changed his style with less running to sit down more on his punches and started going to the ropes more. 72 his best career year, but by 73 becoming jaded, hence his shock loss to then unknown Norton.

In super shape for Zaire, but needed some monkeyshines + foreman unable to train properly and being held hostage by the murderous tyrant who simultaneously entertained Ali in the prez mansion for good PR.

Foreman did so much permanent damage to Ali in that fight that Ali was something of a lost fighter afterwards.

So, 66/7 vs 71/2 the absolute best Ali. I'd make 71/2 a 60/40 vs 66/7. Be a lotta shadow boxing to be sure.
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Old 06-19-2019, 07:18 AM #4
champion4ever champion4ever is offline
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The 1960s Ali had more youth and better athleticism. The 1970s Ali was more seasoned, experienced, developed and more battle tested. He had more will, better chin and overall more skills than the 1960s Ali as well.
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Old 06-19-2019, 08:14 AM #5
Ssssh11 Ssssh11 is offline
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Ali had one of the best Chin's in HW division but watching Ali at his peak was poetry it's a shame he wasted those 3 years, I believe even if he wasn't exiled for those 3 years he still would have lost as the competition got harder but he would have been miles better than the rest .
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Old 06-19-2019, 02:28 PM #6
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Ali had an ATG hand & feet coordination and chin. He was a bit quicker in the 60's and ran more around the ring but I can't stand people saying people like Frazier and Norton, who beat him in the early 70's would have lost against the 60's version of Ali. He's been romanticized too much, althought he surely deserves a huge credit for his fights & the achievements. However, the guys who gave him problems in the early 70's would have given him the same problems fighting Ali from the 60's. Why am I saying that? Because up till the 70's, he's been fighting plodding fighters (a couple of legendary fighters among them) who had the wrong style.

Henry Cooper was the only one who showed the way to beat him. He had the right gameplan, he was countering him a lot and punching with him, while trying to cut the distance. If Cooney had a better footwork and athleticism, he would gave Ali twice as much problems than he already did.

Archie Moore - a legendary fighter, but old, slow and couldn't use a lot of movement, the difference in the athleticism between him and Ali was huge, that Ali was keeping him in the center of the ring most of the time (althought there were instances where she was pressuring him as well, but was slow), pepering him and making him bend in the waist, waiting for Ali to step in for a counter, which never happened.

Liston was following him around the ring and wasn't trying to cut off the ring, was falling into Ali's traps all the time.

Patterson, despite having a peek a boo style and being mentioned as a proof Ali would beat Tyson for that very same reason (which is a bull***** comparison), spent the whole first fight like a statue in the center of the ring and despite doing a good job with feints and having good counter punching skills, he made more steps backward than forward, but still not moving much. You just couldn't stay in one place and expecting to counter Ali, who was pepering you from the outside.

In the 70's, Frazier, despite not having an excellent pressure footwork (didn't really have a wonderful latteral movement so wasn't really great at cutting off the ring), was however closing the distance between them all the time, making him miss by using his upper body movement and was countering him with hooks.

Even fat Buster Mathis occasionally had great moments in countering him and using his superior inside fighting skills when Ali tried to clinch him.

While Norton was outboxing him and countering him in the first half of their first fight only with his jab and left hook, than proceeded to beating him up in the exchanges on the ropes from the second half of their first fight, all the way to the end of their trilogy. As well as doing a lot better job of cutting off the ring on Ali than any other of his other opponents up till than. And just to remind you, during the Norton fights Ali was still super fast on his feet. Just take a look at the 3rd round (I believe) of their 2nd fight, he was moving as fast as he ever did, so I don't take seriously anyone saying the 60's version of Ali would beat him.

Last edited by Offic.Scorecard; 06-19-2019 at 02:36 PM.
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Old 06-19-2019, 03:54 PM #7
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Originally Posted by Offic.Scorecard View Post
Ali had an ATG hand & feet coordination and chin. He was a bit quicker in the 60's and ran more around the ring but I can't stand people saying people like Frazier and Norton, who beat him in the early 70's would have lost against the 60's version of Ali. He's been romanticized too much, althought he surely deserves a huge credit for his fights & the achievements. However, the guys who gave him problems in the early 70's would have given him the same problems fighting Ali from the 60's. Why am I saying that? Because up till the 70's, he's been fighting plodding fighters (a couple of legendary fighters among them) who had the wrong style.

Henry Cooper was the only one who showed the way to beat him. He had the right gameplan, he was countering him a lot and punching with him, while trying to cut the distance. If Cooney had a better footwork and athleticism, he would gave Ali twice as much problems than he already did.

Archie Moore - a legendary fighter, but old, slow and couldn't use a lot of movement, the difference in the athleticism between him and Ali was huge, that Ali was keeping him in the center of the ring most of the time (althought there were instances where she was pressuring him as well, but was slow), pepering him and making him bend in the waist, waiting for Ali to step in for a counter, which never happened.

Liston was following him around the ring and wasn't trying to cut off the ring, was falling into Ali's traps all the time.

Patterson, despite having a peek a boo style and being mentioned as a proof Ali would beat Tyson for that very same reason (which is a bull***** comparison), spent the whole first fight like a statue in the center of the ring and despite doing a good job with feints and having good counter punching skills, he made more steps backward than forward, but still not moving much. You just couldn't stay in one place and expecting to counter Ali, who was pepering you from the outside.

In the 70's, Frazier, despite not having an excellent pressure footwork (didn't really have a wonderful latteral movement so wasn't really great at cutting off the ring), was however closing the distance between them all the time, making him miss by using his upper body movement and was countering him with hooks.

Even fat Buster Mathis occasionally had great moments in countering him and using his superior inside fighting skills when Ali tried to clinch him.

While Norton was outboxing him and countering him in the first half of their first fight only with his jab and left hook, than proceeded to beating him up in the exchanges on the ropes from the second half of their first fight, all the way to the end of their trilogy. As well as doing a lot better job of cutting off the ring on Ali than any other of his other opponents up till than. And just to remind you, during the Norton fights Ali was still super fast on his feet. Just take a look at the 3rd round (I believe) of their 2nd fight, he was moving as fast as he ever did, so I don't take seriously anyone saying the 60's version of Ali would beat him.



A lot of excuses for Ali's wins here. Liston was trying to cut off the ring but he couldn't catch Ali. Stop trying to rewrite history.
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Old 06-19-2019, 04:06 PM #8
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A lot of excuses for Ali's wins here. Liston was trying to cut off the ring but he couldn't catch Ali. Stop trying to rewrite history.
Haha, not a suprise I had you on ignore. You are just fanboying. Go to YT and look at when the illegal substance from Liston's gloves got into Ali's eyes and Ali was running away from him trying to survive, Liston was following a blind man and it didn't looked at all to me as if he was making any effort at all to cut off the ring on him.

Out of my whole post, you just tried to discredit me on that one part and if you take my advice and go watch the fight again, you'll know you failed at it.
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Old 06-19-2019, 04:11 PM #9
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Haha, not a suprise I had you on ignore. You are just fanboying. Go to YT and look at when the illegal substance from Liston's gloves got into Ali's eyes and Ali was running away from him trying to survive, Liston was following a blind man and it didn't looked at all to me as if he was making any effort at all to cut off the ring on him.

Out of my whole post, you just tried to discredit me on that one part and if you take my advice and go watch the fight again, you'll know you failed at it.
You can put me back on ignore. I won't be missing anything. I could have picked apart a lot of things you said but it's not worth my time since I already know what kind of poster you are.

You've always posted with an agenda and straight up lie in your post.
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Old 06-19-2019, 04:28 PM #10
Offic.Scorecard Offic.Scorecard is offline
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You can put me back on ignore. I won't be missing anything. I could have picked apart a lot of things you said but it's not worth my time since I already know what kind of poster you are.

You've always posted with an agenda and straight up lie in your post.
Of course you can pick it apart big boy, I'm just not worth your time (sad face)... But still you tried to prove me wrong, it just didn't went well. As for me having an agenda and lying, you are just reflecting your own agenda there. But it's all good, as I'm not into winning e-fights, go on and have a last word. Congrats - you won! I just presented the facts I saw from those fights and you answered by saying you can pick them apart, it's just you don't want to waste your time on me.

I'll just let the others see who backed their statements with the explanations and who backed their statements by not wanting to waste his time on giving the explanations.
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