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Old 03-27-2020, 09:46 AM #51
Marchegiano Marchegiano is offline
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We tend to call rivals great and no one could rival Mike when he was on top.

Trevor Berbick, James Smith, Pinklon Thomas, Tony Tucker, Larry Holmes, Tony Tubbs, Michael Spinks, and Frank Bruno are great names. Had anyone of them reigned for any considerable period they'd be called great today. No resume needed. No threat to beat to prove their greatness, just time in position. Like Wlad.


It's all well and fine today to say "but Evander though" But the thing is Evander Holyfield and Lennox Lewis waited to make moves in the division. They were not even big names when Mike was really Mike.

Punch Out came out in 87. You know, when Evander was a CW and five years before Lennox would fight for any world title because he hadn't even debuted.


What makes Lennox a great one? What makes Evander a great one? Cause they beat up old Foreman and Rahman? Not hardly. Evander beat up Mike Tyson a decade after Punch Out. A decade after Mike's been proven and with Mike coming off a loss. Evander, all of a sudden, went from okay, to great.

Lennox didn't even fight him until 02 ffs. Expecting a real Mike in 02 is just dumb. It's a good job he has Vitali really. Otherwise his former champion's list would be kinda like Mike's. Bunch of second tier names and an old champion who was dominate over a decade ago.


Outside of Mike, compare Tyson's resume to Evander and Lennox's. Your Tuckers and your Dokeses. Basically the same **** because Pinklon and Tubbs and **** were the men you beat to be champion. Old Foreman, born in 49...old Holmes...born in 49...get me? They basically mirror one another.

Lennox's path to the title is Mike Tyson leftovers.

Evander's is pretty much too.

Because like it or not Mike Tyson absolutely dominated a group of men for five years straight. Lennox and Evander both rode his coattails and capitalized off his greatness to become greater.

86-92 is all Mike.

92-99 Evander

99-03 Lewis

Mike didn't have the luxury of allowing anyone else to look great prior to him....he had no Mike Tyson to prime the audience for the oncoming career he was planning. Evander and Lennox did.
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Old 03-27-2020, 10:01 AM #52
Chollo Vista Chollo Vista is offline
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Originally Posted by Slicedbread View Post
Lol..

Buster Douglas disagrees.
That's not fair. That same logic can be applied to Wlad, Lewis, Hagler, Hopkins, Sugar Ray Robinson, etc.

They all took losses against no hopers.

Last edited by Chollo Vista; 03-27-2020 at 10:10 AM.
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Old 03-27-2020, 10:16 AM #53
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Originally Posted by Nash out View Post
No. He had some decent wins. I'll compare his best wins to current fighters ability wise.

Tony Tucker - Gerald Washington
Old Larry Holmes - Kevin Johnson (prime version)
Tony Tubbs - Eric Molina
Michael Spinks - Jesse Hart
Frank Bruno - David Price
Alex Stewart - Lucas Browne
Razor Ruddock - Joey Abell
lol at these comparisons.

none of the guys on the right would beat anyone from the left.
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Old 03-27-2020, 10:33 AM #54
Mooshashi Mooshashi is offline
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Originally Posted by BangEM View Post
Michael Spinks would probably be the only one and Spinks was a light heavyweight - not a heavyweight. It's just basically like a heavyweight beating up Bivol. LMAO.

Ruddock was a career contender and he wasn't better than a guy like Dillian Whyte. And Holmes was past his prime apart from taking the fight on a month notice after being out of the ring for almost 2yrs.

Mike Tyson's overrated.
Michael Spinks won the HW title from Larry Holmes, which makes him a HW. He also ko'd a very big HW named Gerry Cooney, which again makes him a HW. He was 6'2' and weighed 212 pounds when Tyson beat him, which makes him a HW.
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Old 03-27-2020, 10:35 AM #55
Mooshashi Mooshashi is offline
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Originally Posted by Marchegiano View Post
We tend to call rivals great and no one could rival Mike when he was on top.

Trevor Berbick, James Smith, Pinklon Thomas, Tony Tucker, Larry Holmes, Tony Tubbs, Michael Spinks, and Frank Bruno are great names. Had anyone of them reigned for any considerable period they'd be called great today. No resume needed. No threat to beat to prove their greatness, just time in position. Like Wlad.


It's all well and fine today to say "but Evander though" But the thing is Evander Holyfield and Lennox Lewis waited to make moves in the division. They were not even big names when Mike was really Mike.

Punch Out came out in 87. You know, when Evander was a CW and five years before Lennox would fight for any world title because he hadn't even debuted.


What makes Lennox a great one? What makes Evander a great one? Cause they beat up old Foreman and Rahman? Not hardly. Evander beat up Mike Tyson a decade after Punch Out. A decade after Mike's been proven and with Mike coming off a loss. Evander, all of a sudden, went from okay, to great.

Lennox didn't even fight him until 02 ffs. Expecting a real Mike in 02 is just dumb. It's a good job he has Vitali really. Otherwise his former champion's list would be kinda like Mike's. Bunch of second tier names and an old champion who was dominate over a decade ago.


Outside of Mike, compare Tyson's resume to Evander and Lennox's. Your Tuckers and your Dokeses. Basically the same **** because Pinklon and Tubbs and **** were the men you beat to be champion. Old Foreman, born in 49...old Holmes...born in 49...get me? They basically mirror one another.

Lennox's path to the title is Mike Tyson leftovers.

Evander's is pretty much too.

Because like it or not Mike Tyson absolutely dominated a group of men for five years straight. Lennox and Evander both rode his coattails and capitalized off his greatness to become greater.

86-92 is all Mike.

92-99 Evander

99-03 Lewis

Mike didn't have the luxury of allowing anyone else to look great prior to him....he had no Mike Tyson to prime the audience for the oncoming career he was planning. Evander and Lennox did.
I approve of this post. Logical, clear and concise. Well done, sir.
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Old 03-27-2020, 10:56 AM #56
Slicedbread Slicedbread is offline
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Originally Posted by Chollo Vista View Post
That's not fair. That same logic can be applied to Wlad, Lewis, Hagler, Hopkins, Sugar Ray Robinson, etc.

They all took losses against no hopers.
Yes but their accomplishments before and/or after more than made up for it.

And nobody goes around saying any of those aside from Robinson is the goat.

I'd rank Tyson and Wladimir as comparable in their accomplishments. I think Wlad beats him head to head doe..

I don't even need to list Robinson, Hagler, Hopkins and Lewis achievements.

Lewis is a top 3-5 HW ATG and top 50 ATG.. Hopkins top 50. Robinson is probably the goat, or without a doubt top 3..

Both Wlad and Tyson are right around 11 to 13ish hw atg. And somewhere outside the top 100 but not too far.
And yes Tyson would most likely destroy a lot of earlier HW ATGs like Dempsey, Marciano, Johnson, Louis, etc. but you don't compare ATG status based on hypothetical head to heads, you base it in what they accomplished during their career.

Last edited by Slicedbread; 03-27-2020 at 11:02 AM.
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Old 03-27-2020, 11:11 AM #57
Chollo Vista Chollo Vista is offline
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Originally Posted by Slicedbread View Post
Yes but their accomplishments before and/or after more than made up for it.

And nobody goes around saying any of those aside from Robinson is the goat.

I'd rank Tyson and Wladimir as comparable in their accomplishments. I think Wlad beats him head to head doe..

I don't even need to list Robinson, Hagler, Hopkins and Lewis achievements.

Lewis is a top 3-5 HW ATG and top 50 ATG.. Hopkins top 50. Robinson is probably the goat, or without a doubt top 3..

Both Wlad and Tyson are right around 11 to 13ish hw atg. And somewhere outside the top 100 but not too far.
And yes Tyson would most likely destroy a lot of earlier HW ATGs like Dempsey, Marciano, Johnson, Louis, etc. but you don't compare ATG status based on hypothetical head to heads, you base it in what they accomplished during their career.
True, but that wasn't the original argument. You threw out the name Buster Douglass as if losing to him would justify not being an ATG. That's the point I was addressing
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Old 03-27-2020, 12:17 PM #58
Long jabber Long jabber is offline
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Originally Posted by Longhaul View Post
Tony Tucker beat a fat out of shape Douglass who gassed out for the tittle and had a win vs Oliver McCall who was 19-4 at the time.This is hall of fame credentials?When you think of a fighter who is past his prime itís usually do to age and brutal fights where the guy has lost a step reflexes are shot.Tyson was still young most of his fights were were quick no punishment on his body.Tysons training habits where his down fall once he left Atlas .He pissed his prime away thatís a big difference than a guy who has been in war after war.Every body makes excuses for Tyson.
Tony tucker was an undefeated champ when he fought tyson and went on the win some good fights. He even managed to give lennox lewis a hard time at moments. If lewis and tyson werent around he would definitely be a hof
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Old 03-27-2020, 12:26 PM #59
emceetns emceetns is offline
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Originally Posted by F l i c k e r View Post
Not at all. His prime was up until about 91, when he faced Ruddock and stopped him twice. Who was the "GGG" or "Margarito" etc. of the early 90s. "no one wanted to fight him" kind of deal.

Right before he went to jail.
Best years, absolute peak, that's a matter of semantics and I wasn't implying that he completely fell off after 1989. Also, Tyson won by somewhat controversial stoppage in the first Ruddock fight and then won a UD in the rematch.
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Old 03-27-2020, 01:16 PM #60
BoxingTrav BoxingTrav is offline
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I hate the narrative that Tyson lost every big fight. That is incorrect. What is correct is that he lost every big fight after prison.

Before Prison

He beat Berbick in a big fight (1st Title), Bonecrusher Smith in a unification, Tucker to become undisputed, Tyrell Biggs was a big fight, Larry Homes was a big fight (Mike was the only man to ever stop Larry), Spinks was the biggest fight in boxing and Bruno was another big fight. So please with the revisionist bull. Tyson's run was a great one. Wish he maintained his discipline but it was not written that way.
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