People should know the facts before they judge Floyd Patterson

[chaconfan]

The FACTS are that he was robbed in the first Quarry fight. The rematch was controversial too. He had a very bad back and was past his best when he fought Ali.
He was robbed in the Maxim bout, here is the WIKI on it.."Floyd Patterson, the 19 year old Olympic graduate, won a "newspaper decision" over Joey Maxim last night, but the cagey ex-light heavyweight champion grabbed the verdict that counts - a unanimous if unpopular vote by the three officials. A poll of 11 boxing writers at the ringside at Brooklyn's Eastern Parkway Arena was unanimous for Patterson over his 32 year old opponent. Patterson, using a spectacular leaping right hand lead battered Maxim in the 6th, staggering him twice. Joey fought back gamely under bursts of fire by Patterson grabbing when in danger." -Associated Press. This is despite the fact that Maxim had 104 bouts to Floyds 13.
The Ellis fight was also a robbery, the Associated Press had it 7-4-4 in favor of Patterson. In a poll of eight ringside sportswriters by United Press International, six scored the fight for Patterson and two for Ellis.
The crowd booed the decision and chanted Patterson's name. A fair decision would have made him the first three time heavy champ.
As a light heavy, he beat Durelle twice, and as a small heavy he beat Moore, Bonavena, Chuvalo, Cooper, London, Johannson twice, plus Quarry (possibly twice) Maxim and Ellis if not for the robberies, and he beat 3 unbeaten fighters 23 -0 23-0 and 22-0, not to mention an Olympic gold at only middleweight and TWO heavyweight records, both of which still stand. # Tyson was not the undisputed champ when he won his first title. Hopefully some people might learn something....that being, records are VERY deceiving, as evidenced by the one Marciano holds.

[The Old LefHook]

I do not care what 11 handpicked journalists thought. I watched Patterson/Maxim last night. Just as I thought, you are leaning way too heavily. I thought the decision might have legitimately gone either way. The green Patterson missed a million punches. Maxim landed good body shots throughout. Not a robbery, kid. Patterson hits harder but missed too many punches. There is nothing wrong with that decision, and I have no love for Kearns and Maxim. Scum Kearns got Maxim part of Archie Moore's purses for life just for signing to fight him.

Louis/Walcott I, now there was a heavyweight robbery, son.

[mikeg1224]

IMO, Floyd was a mediocre HW talent. After he won the title against Archie Moore, he fought a bunch of nobodies including Pete Rademacher, Roy "Cut 'n Shoot' Harris, etc. Let's face it: even Ingemar was considered to be a nobody until he beat the snot out of Floyd. When public pressure & President Kennedy made Floyd face Liston, poor Floyd was demolished but good. Likewise, when Floyd fought Ali, he was just out of his league. Also, I agree with the other poster that Floyd was not robbed against Maxim; rather, it was a close fight.

[The Old LefHook]

Patterson was a mediocre heavyweight. He would have made a good light heavy. You can figure any big puching heavyweight with a little skill is going to KO him. Ken Norton would probably KO him, because Floyd's punch is probably just shy of being hard enough to do what hard hard punches always did to Kenny.

I like Patterson as a man. As a boxer he had an exciting style. How he does against Braddock & Sharkey et al, I really do not know, but that is the group he belongs with. I assume he can out-maneuver John L. Sullivan, but who knows? Johanneson was a registered, thoroughbred scrub.

[Ray Corso]

"Johanneson was a registered, thoroughbred scrub"........

Not really he fought and won against a few effective fighters to get his shot with Floyd.
He had a very good right hand and despite his parting during training and seemingly disinterest in the sport he did very well.
He only had 28 pro bouts completing at 26w--2l.
He was tested against Franco Cavicci a solid Euro heavy and
KO'd him for the Euro Title. He then KO'd a young Henry Cooper and Joe Erskine. He then KO'd Eddie Machen who was another solid fighter who undefeated at that time. His next bout he became Heavyweight Champ.
To refer to Iggy as a scrub tells me you know nothing about his competition or the man himself.

The biggest fault concerning Iggy was he didn't take boxing seriously and although he trained for his bouts he also had a good time throughout his career.
I liked him, everyone can't be an ATG and the guy was Champion of the World in three exciting bouts with Floyd. Whats not to like?

Ray

[The Old LefHook]

"Johanneson was a registered, thoroughbred scrub"........

Not really he fought and won against a few effective fighters to get his shot with Floyd.
He had a very good right hand and despite his parting during training and seemingly disinterest in the sport he did very well.
He only had 28 pro bouts completing at 26w--2l.
He was tested against Franco Cavicci a solid Euro heavy and
KO'd him for the Euro Title. He then KO'd a young Henry Cooper and Joe Erskine. He then KO'd Eddie Machen who was another solid fighter who undefeated at that time. His next bout he became Heavyweight Champ.
To refer to Iggy as a scrub tells me you know nothing about his competition or the man himself.

The biggest fault concerning Iggy was he didn't take boxing seriously and although he trained for his bouts he also had a good time throughout his career.
I liked him, everyone can't be an ATG and the guy was Champion of the World in three exciting bouts with Floyd. Whats not to like?

Ray

That was overboard. I shouldn't have insulted poor Ingo. I always liked him. I suppose he was solid enough for his era. But the era ruled by Patterson was weaker (outside of Liston) than Marciano's stint, for elderly versions of Louis, Walcott & Charles are reasonable heavyweight contenders, in my view. I am prone to think the versions of all three that fought Rocky would have had better than even chances against the best Patterson. The Ingo rematches, is that the very best Patterson?

[Ray Corso]

He is only 24 years old against Iggy in the first bout and 25 in their second.
His only loss in 35 bouts was to Maxim in the mid 50's at that time!
Paterson didn't fight in the novice class at the beginning of his amateur career he went right into the Open class and won NYC championships. At that time that tourney was very difficult to win.

These bouts were action packed bouts not like these Fury vs Wlad garbage where no one "tries"!
Iggy was 22-0 when he became Champ. He was only 27 years old.

I'm not suggesting either man is any where near a great fighter but they did come to the ring to WIN!
They didn't run or hold because at that time in that era if you did the garbage that many of todays fighters pull they would NEVER be used again!
When your money is earned from the LIVE GATE not the ppv BS that suckers buy you better perform!!

Both of these guys covered the admission fee to see them!

Ray

[The Old LefHook]

Patterson was always in shape. When you look at his body, it is beautifully proportioned, with huge shoulder balls. He had a greater vulnerability to the knockdown than any other heavyweight champion, or perhaps any champion of any division. He usually got up and usually won. Going into the first Quarry fight he had already been knocked down something like 18 times as a pro, and he was destined to make 20 that night.

If you asked, who got the better of that fight, it depends on what you are asking. California at the time had a ridiculous scoring system where the winner of a round seldom got more than one point, but could get up to five points. In the event of a drawn round, neither fighter got a point. It was entirely up to the judges whether they gave Quarry two points in each of the two rounds where he knocked Patterson down. A crooked judge could award a fighter five points for a round, if he needed them to win, or withold any extra points.

Quarry built up enough of an early lead, in the minds of the judges, who obviously gave him two points for the knockdowns, whereas the referee who scored it a draw did not. Quarry was more beat up and closer to losing at the end of the fight. But in a points system that does not make you the winner. We see who won the street fight, now let' see what the judges say about the boxing match of separate, tallied rounds. The draw may have been a fair decision. More fights should end in draws. Commissions hate draws. They instruct their judges to find a winner to a round, even if the loser only breathed heavier. But a draw would have been a just decision in many fights I have watched over the years that went to one man. Because of decisions, boxing victories mean less than victories in other sports. We know who wins the 100 meter dash and the pole vault, without question.

A few months later Patterson lost to him in a similar scenario where the ref called it a draw and the two judges overruled him. I did think Patterson should have been awarded the decision in the second fight.

I also watched Patterson fight Bonavena last night, whom he handled easily despite suffering another official knockdown from the crude Argentine's mitts or shoulders.

Floyd would have made an awesome light heavyweight, where obviously he could have fought. If departments are meaningless, but if Floyd had possessed a world class chin, he would have been a real destroyer, considering the other polished tools he did possess. I have never seen a faster set of heavyweightt mitts. Of course, very few of these old time heavyweights are actually heavyweights according to modern standards. Outside of Roy Jones, you would probably not find a faster set of light heavyweight mitts, and Floyd is not that far from him in speed. Those two speedballs with their chins would have made an intriguing matchup and might have produced a great series similar to Ingo and Patty. Floyd had great form in the ring, which he retained late in long fights. He was always in fighting trim and ready to go.

Tonight I will watch the Ingo/Patty series again, since it is short and always exciting.

[yngwie]

Floyd Patterson is the most disrespected boxer in boxing forums.
He was an Olympic champion at 17, a world champion at 22, the first man to regain the title at hw and after losing he put a great run when he tried to win the title a third time.
In his own words he was the fighter that went down most times but the one that got up more than anyone.
He was a great talent, fast hands, power, great technique, good body puncher and with solid defense.
He is respected by everyone that knew him because he was a gentleman and he was a great champion despite probably being one of the weakest h2h but you have to consider that he was a really small heavyweight, who knows if he would have been that easy to drop as a good sized 175 .

[saintpat]

How many times did Floyd get knocked down in his career?