The AlexKid 'questions about punchers, chins, hiprotation etc.' superduper thread.

[Fury4daWIN]

Power never does fully carry up the weight scale, that I have seen. But I sure have seen multiple examples of men moving up whose punch no longer kayoes their opponents senseless. Their power is never fully there, now that's a fact of life. Julian Jackson would not have seemed a devastating puncher to Dwight Braxton.

Duran is one fighter whose power was relatively stable. It certainly diminshed as he went up but remained good enough to stun or hurt his heavier opponents.

Are you aware that Guillermo Jones started off his career as a welterweight? Yeah, I have no idea how he did that either.

[Fury4daWIN]

I have to say it's Marciano if he fits your version of a cruiserweight, as he was under 200lbs he should be and I cant think of anyone who hit harder, he was certainly harder hitter than Dempsey or Louis or Holyfield or Danny Green or Corbett... maybe Langford hit harder but I dont think so.. he like Louis was more accurate but when Rocky got it right it's lights out, he hit hard enough to stop a Klitschko so it has to be the ROCK.

I can think of a fair few cruiser weights and old school heavyweights who punched harder than the Rock, including several CWs fighting today. Marciano had huge power for his weight, but he was still only 185lbs, a good 20lbs lighter than today's fighters in the division. You might think that doesn't matter, but we've seen how many cruiserweights moving up to heavy lose their power. It stands to reason that Marciano would also lose his effectiveness against the bigger boys he'd routinely have to go up against today. He certainly wouldn't hit hard enough to stop a Klitschko; that's just a bit of wish fulfilment taken too far.

[Fury4daWIN]

1 Marciano
2 Dempsey
3 Walcott
4 Louis
5 Holyfield
6 Patterson


Putting in Shavers is ridiculous. Where are the pounds he would lose in order to rehydrate. The man would be in a hospital bed if he got down to 200 lbs. Hays is just a scrub I would not have on a list. He is such a scrub I refuse to spell his name correctly. He had one chance and he showed what a scrub he was. He will never get another chance from me.

What are you talking about? 10lbs is nothing to lose today.

[The Old LefHook]

What are you talking about? 10lbs is nothing to lose today.

Shavers did not have ten lbs. to lose yesterday, today or tomorrow, though they would find the weight if they wanted to bad enough. He was not a cruiserweight despite you machinations.

You blithely overlook the fact that all weigh-ins should be held the day of the fight, that rehydrating is weak modern business which should be outlawed. There are good reasons that fight fans uphold traditions like fifteen round fights and same day weigh-ins even in their fantasy matchups. I have never been interested in seeing a cheater put on ten or fifteen pounds the day of the fight to beat a smaller man. In the game of pan it is legal to cheat. In boxing it is legal to cheat too.

I am only interested in fair matchups, not guys losing all kinds of weight to cheat, or putting it on illegally to cheat. Both ways are the same to me, and such actions have diminished my interest in the sport.

[Fury4daWIN]

Shavers did not have ten lbs. to lose yesterday, today or tomorrow, though they would find the weight if they wanted to bad enough. He was not a cruiserweight despite you machinations.

You blithely overlook the fact that all weigh-ins should be held the day of the fight, that rehydrating is weak modern business which should be outlawed. There are good reasons that fight fans uphold traditions like fifteen round fights and same day weigh-ins even in their fantasy matchups. I have never been interested in seeing a cheater put on ten or fifteen pounds the day of the fight to beat a smaller man. In the game of pan it is legal to cheat. In boxing it is legal to cheat too.

I am only interested in fair matchups, not guys losing all kinds of weight to cheat, or putting it on illegally to cheat. Both ways are the same to me, and such actions have diminished my interest in the sport.

My point is that most modern cruiserweights are the same weight and physical dimensions as Shavers. How they cut the weight to make the contractual limit is irrelevant; the fact is they are 205-210lbs men competing against other 205-210lbs men and should be rated as such.

Not that you appear rate any modern cruiserweights in the first place, but it's worth bearing in mind that these are by no means small men.

[soul_survivor]

Pacquiao, Leonard, Hearns...possibly Duran?

Those are the stand out names in this category.

[Fury4daWIN]

Here's Shavers at his peak fighting weight of 210lbs.



Here's Haye at 200lbs for the weigh in against Maccarinelli (his last CW fight).



You're telling me Shavers couldn't afford to shed ten pounds of water weight to make 200? Or that Haye didn't put a similar amount back on come fight night? These men were the same size.

[McGoorty]

Shavers did not have ten lbs. to lose yesterday, today or tomorrow, though they would find the weight if they wanted to bad enough. He was not a cruiserweight despite you machinations.

You blithely overlook the fact that all weigh-ins should be held the day of the fight, that rehydrating is weak modern business which should be outlawed. There are good reasons that fight fans uphold traditions like fifteen round fights and same day weigh-ins even in their fantasy matchups. I have never been interested in seeing a cheater put on ten or fifteen pounds the day of the fight to beat a smaller man. In the game of pan it is legal to cheat. In boxing it is legal to cheat too.

I am only interested in fair matchups, not guys losing all kinds of weight to cheat, or putting it on illegally to cheat. Both ways are the same to me, and such actions have diminished my interest in the sport.

I like this post, yes 15 rounds and same day weigh ins are a must, when I watch welterweights fight I demand that both are welterweights when they meet in the ring and 15 rounds sorts the men from the boys not that it's fair to denigrate some as boys, it is an expression only.

[McGoorty]

I am going to go way back to Bob Fitzsimmons here, he didn't need to gain lots of kilos to win titles at weights he never actually got near to, truly amazing puncher with descriptions of him hitting big men with a single shot and leaving them poleaxed unable to get up no matter how much willpower they had.

[McGoorty]

2 guys

So guys who are small that could take out men much bigger than their natural size.

For example Tyson is one, he didnt climb the divisions but he could have easily started at cruiserweight and he KOed guys with huge weight and size advantages

Another example would be hearns his power carried up the divisions pretty well considering he went from welterweight? to bloody cruiser weight.

I must say Barbados Joe Walcott was a freak and so was Joe Choynski but I rate Walcott above him especially as Walcott smashed the far bigger Choynski to pieces in their fight.