AJ vs Wilder propaganda, the fans, the fiction, the fantasy numbers, a fair deal?

[boliodogs]

Why don't they offer Wilder a 65/35 split in AJ's favor of all money that is available to pay the boxers? When one important champion offers another important champion a flat fee instead of a percentage it's rip off time. They are trying to rob Wilder without a gun or hope he turns the ****ty offer down so they can say they tried but Wilder didn't want to fight AJ. Until they make Wilder a reasonable offer I think it's team AJ who doesn't want to fight Wilder. Wilder has every right to turn that garbage offer down.

[Jubei]

There is a reason why Wilder and his camp quickly rejected the FIRST offer. These are on going negotiations and they were given 48 hours to agree. I doubt that Wilder would turn down $12 mil if Joshua is only making $19 mil. I say "only" dubiously.

If they have done the projections and came up with your numbers then my opinion will change, but I trust Haymon and if he turned that offer down, and he's negotiated big fights then don't you think that something is wrong with the offer?

Nobody can really tell because the numbers are pure speculation, even for Hearn himself, this is all a big gamble to plan, he knows the numbers for Klitschko vs Wilder and he knows Wilders and Joshuas past numbers/buys.

The problem is that certain people and a certain demographic tries to tell us that its a guaranteed $100 million fight and that Wilder would only get 12% of the split which is ludicrous. These people actually claim that Joshua will make $88 million from this fight and say Joshua/Hearn are ducking the fight with that offer.

I'm not a huge fan of either fighter, I just hope they make it happen, I also believe that Hearn makes decent deals, otherwise he wouldnt have gotten the deal with Klitschko and Parker made like that.

I really hope the media stops with their manipulation and fooling of the public making it seem like these offers are totally laughable and that the 2 main fighters can keep 100% of the revenue of a huge event.

[N/A]

Why don't they offer Wilder a 65/35 split in AJ's favor of all money that is available to pay the boxers?

If Parker got one third, Wilder deserves more than 35%. Wilder has a larger fanbase, comes from a more lucrative market, and has the most valuable belt. 60/40 is a reasonable request. Hearn could maybe chip him down to 62/38. But can't expect Wilder to take 35% when mandatories get 25-30% with no rematch clause and Parker got 33.3%.

[Clegg]

I agree that people are going OTT talking as if this will generate 100M. But I do think whatever it generates, Wilder should get a % not a flat fee.

[BLASTER1]

If Parker got one third, Wilder deserves more than 35%. Wilder has a larger fanbase, comes from a more lucrative market, and has the most valuable belt. 60/40 is a reasonable request. Hearn could maybe chip him down to 62/38. But can't expect Wilder to take 35% when mandatories get 25-30% with no rematch clause and Parker got 33.3%.

Theirs no doubt Wilder should say no to this flat fee bs.
If Hearn isnt flat out trying to duck Wilder then he should at least make it percentage and im sure there is a percentage value that reflects both fighters.
Im sure their will be a re-match clause thrown in and with that i agree with Wilder that if he wins he gets a higher percentage considering he will hold all the belts and be the a side.
If that takes taking a 35-38% on the first fight i think that is fair.
Not this flat rate copout ducking move that Hearn is trying to pull.

[R_Walken]

Does nobody here question the propaganda lately concerning the fantasy numbers appearing when talking about Joshua vs Wilder?

Specially when people bring up these numbers and think 50 or 100 million revenue means Wilder gets $12.5 and Joshua gets $87.5 Million?

These numbers just pop up from some random journalists, first its $50 mill then $100 mill and then its over $100 mill and all the fans jump on it as if its a hard fact?

What are these fantasy numbers based on? What has Wilder done so far? What were his TV ratings? How much tickets does he sell? How many PPV buys did he sell? How much does he sell outside of his backyard?

There are now certain (obviously american) journalists that just jump on these fictious numbers and try to tell us how much a fight between Joshua and Wilder would generate and people eat it up like its a proven fact. They also fail to tell us what revenue really means and how much of that money ends up for the fighters involved.

When you had Wladimir Klitscho fight Joshua you knew that Wlad was selling out huge arenas before and had massive support in Europe, his fights had huge ratings on RTL (and even HBO), usually watched by over 10 million people live just in Germany. Wlad was long reigning HW champion and fought all over the world.

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2017/5/1...-uk-ppv-record

Now you have Joshua, who is obviously a big star in Europe, not well known and never fought in the US and you got Wilder who is not a star in Europe nor in the US. He is slowly building a fanbase in the US yet you have certain people here claiming this fight would do crazy numbers.

There are numbers floating around for Klitschko vs Joshua which was a huge success doing about $50 million in total revenue.
https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2016/12/...boxing-records


That doesnt mean the fighters just get to keep the $50 million, there are tons of people getting paid.

The PPV provider and the cable companies take most of the money from PPV buys and the promoter usually gets only about 45% of the revenue from every single PPV buy which means if the PPV revenue is about $30 million the promoter only gets about $13.5 million: https://www.boxing insider.com/colum...iew-deal-work/

Lets be generous and estimate the AJ Wilder fight generates $60 million (Live Gate, TV money, PPV buys, sponsoring, merchandise etc), thats more than Joshua vs Klitschko did.

Out of the $60 million there is $35 million generated from PPV buys, x 45-50% (lets be generous here too and not do the usual 45%) = ~$18 Million which leaves the revenue at ~$42 Million - $10 Million for all other costs (promotion, stadium rent, accommodations for all the people involved, paying for the actual event/putting up a show, paying the officials, helpers etc. Hearn/Match Room cut, paying the sanctoning fees, pay all the undercard fighters etc), that leaves the total revenue at approximately $32 Million for the fighters which is still crazy high.

$12.5 Million out of a $32 million pot is approximately 40% (a little over 39% to be exact) and leaves Joshua at ~$19.5 Million and with 60% of the split.

Is that such a bad deal afterall for Wilder?

Joshua vs Wilder
PPV Buys $35 Million
Live Gate $13 Million
Other income (1) $12 Million
= $60 Million total revenue
=========================
- Cable/PPV provider $18 Million
- Other costs (2) $10 Million
= $32 Million purse for AJ/Wilder
=========================

Wilder $12.5 Million, that leaves Joshua at $19.5 Million (40/60 split)

Others incomes (1): Sponsoring, TV Money, Merchandise etc.
Other costs (2): Stadium rent, accommodation costs, sanctioning fees, paying undercard fighters, actual event costs, Match Room/Promoter Cut etc.

Did you think it was fair when Oscar offered Gennady a flat rate of 10 million

I’m guessing No , so don’t flip flop when it’s a fighter you don’t like

This fight is easily a 100million dollar range fight

Not saying take home and this is just a rough guess but

At least 1.5 million UK PPV = 40 million
At least 300-400k US PPV = 30 million
Gate = 15-20 million
Broadcasting Rights ( no idea really just a guess ) = 10-20 million
Sponsorship = 5 million
Site fee = 2-5 million

That’s a 100 million right there and I think that’s being conservative even with a fake home of 60 million a 12.5 million take it or leave it offer equals 20% that’s not negotiating in good faith or a sign you want To make the fight

[A.K]

If Parker got one third, Wilder deserves more than 35%. Wilder has a larger fanbase, comes from a more lucrative market, and has the most valuable belt. 60/40 is a reasonable request. Hearn could maybe chip him down to 62/38. But can't expect Wilder to take 35% when mandatories get 25-30% with no rematch clause and Parker got 33.3%.

We can guarantee more people know wilder in the states than aj due to showtime ratings and now that Hearn has had to keep wilder in his mouth we can assure both are the same popularity in the U.K

Wilder being the humble one will accept a lesser purse as long as a % of ppv revenue goes his way as it should for being the more known and feared fighter.

[sunny31]

Did you think it was fair when Oscar offered Gennady a flat rate of 10 million

I’m guessing No , so don’t flip flop when it’s a fighter you don’t like

This fight is easily a 100million dollar range fight

Not saying take home and this is just a rough guess but

At least 1.5 million UK PPV = 40 million
At least 300-400k US PPV = 30 million
Gate = 15-20 million
Broadcasting Rights ( no idea really just a guess ) = 10-20 million
Sponsorship = 5 million
Site fee = 2-5 million

That’s a 100 million right there and I think that’s being conservative even with a fake home of 60 million a 12.5 million take it or leave it offer equals 20% that’s not negotiating in good faith or a sign you want To make the fight

This is NOT a US ppv fight, especially if it's prime time in the UK. Don't know why some of you keep saying that. Plus on both fronts, the network take around 50% of the revenue, Sky take a little bit less. Broadcasting rights are nowhere near that figure. Typically Showtime or HBO might pay $1 million for a fight on the regular subscription channel, maybe double that for a big fight like this. Rights from other countries are considerably less.

Eddie Hearn takes a lot less than promoters in the past, and takes 20% of the total profit.

1.5 million buys = around $40. The revenue from that which is actually applicable after Sky have taken their cut is around $20-24.

The gate - lets roll with $20 million, the higher end of what you have said. Again they don't keep all that, they have to pay Wembley to actually hire out the stadium, which will be substantial. As well as the set up costs, which again are huge because it normally acts as a football/soccer stadium. Wembley stadium will also net 10% of all the receipts and ticket sales. So let's say at the end they keep around $16 million.

Sponsorship - probably about right.

There is no site fee, I think this is typical in Vegas where there are casinos, attractions which benefit.

So you are talking about revenue in the $45-50 million range. There is just no way $100 million is even remotely realistic.

Let's say $50 million. Yes I think based on that number the purse offer is slightly low. It's around 25%, I think they will finish around the same number as what Parker got, or GGG got in terms of %. Wilder will end up with something around $15-17 million. Joshua around $33-35.

Which by the way will be a relatively small increase for Joshua, and a HUGE increase for Wilder.

[Scary]

I like Wilder more than AJ now.

More funny.

[R_Walken]

This is NOT a US ppv fight, especially if it's prime time in the UK. Don't know why some of you keep saying that. Plus on both fronts, the network take around 50% of the revenue, Sky take a little bit less. Broadcasting rights are nowhere near that figure. Typically Showtime or HBO might pay $1 million for a fight on the regular subscription channel, maybe double that for a big fight like this. Rights from other countries are considerably less.

Eddie Hearn takes a lot less than promoters in the past, and takes 20% of the total profit.

1.5 million buys = around $40. The revenue from that which is actually applicable after Sky have taken their cut is around $20-24.

The gate - lets roll with $20 million, the higher end of what you have said. Again they don't keep all that, they have to pay Wembley to actually hire out the stadium, which will be substantial. As well as the set up costs, which again are huge because it normally acts as a football/soccer stadium. Wembley stadium will also net 10% of all the receipts and ticket sales. So let's say at the end they keep around $16 million.

Sponsorship - probably about right.

There is no site fee, I think this is typical in Vegas where there are casinos, attractions which benefit.

So you are talking about revenue in the $45-50 million range. There is just no way $100 million is even remotely realistic.

Let's say $50 million. Yes I think based on that number the purse offer is slightly low. It's around 25%, I think they will finish around the same number as what Parker got, or GGG got in terms of %. Wilder will end up with something around $15-17 million. Joshua around $33-35.

Which by the way will be a relatively small increase for Joshua, and a HUGE increase for Wilder.

It’s foolish to think that offer by Hearn he would only want to get a slight pay increase for AJ and that offer was made in good faith this is a offer made with every intention to be turned down so Hearn can go to the public and be like see I offered him highest payday and they don’t want it similar to what he did with Whyte

I still think it’s a 100 million dollar fight in revenue generated maybe not take home but if Canelo/ GGg can do in the neighbourhood of 150 this can do 100 since it’s be the most anticipated fight that hasn’t been made

I don’t know why you’d think a US PPV is out of the question. It’s the biggest HW fight in 15 years for all the straps. People would be willing to pay $ for that

Even at a low end of 150-175k what GGg did against Lemieux and Jocobs or Ward / Kov did why would anyone leave that $ on the table which is what bare minimum 8-10 million take home. And I’m pretty sure it easily surpasses those PPVs

In your post your #s add up to 50 mil take home not including US PPV which would be at least another 8-20 million

So now we’re at 60-75 take home

Again why not try and get a site fee for this event even if it’s in the UK I’m sure some entity would offer to hold the fight in their stadium or coliseum for a bit of $ even if that’s 1 million

And with the International Rights like I said for me it’s a pure guess but the AJ/Parker said it was broadcast in 212 countries / regions

It’d be for sure a PPV fight in Canada , Australia, New Zealand which probably adds another couple million to the pot

And from previous reports of Chavez Jr receiving 2.5 million for the Mexican rights to his fight with Fonfara ( I know neither are Mexican and not saying it’d be that high , but still a big fight so it’s generate something significant ) to the May/ MAC fight getting 10k for the fight to be broadcast in Italy I think it’s safe to say that Germany, Mexico , Russia all pay decent $ for the fight and the other 200+ counties bring in let’s say 25k ( probably on the low end) a pop that’s another 5 million

So that’s another 10 million and that’s thrown in the pot and being pretty conservative so even by your figures with the other revenue streams this fight does 85 million take home but for arguments sake let’s say 75.

You think a fair offer to Wilder is 1/6 of the take home and roughly half of the % of what Parker got in a fight that everyone can agree is a way bigger fight and would generate more $

And even if we went by your estimation of a 50 million dollar pot you think it’s fair to offer a flat rate that would be significantly less then % what Parker got and also lower % then what a f.ucking Mando would get in what is most likely the biggest fight of the year

Are you for real, how could you even sit there and pretend that was a serious offer and should be accepted