History today

[sonnyboyx2]

Superior has nothing to do with it, it's about earning the right to fight for a particular title. Neither Pac nor Margs did that. Whats the point of rating fighters if we're not going to abide by the system and reward the fighters who have fought within it? The simple truth is this was about familiarity and money. The WBC stood to make far more money in sanctioning fee's from two fighters who weren't even active in that division than it did from pitting Angulo, Martiroysyan or Alvarez against one another. 3 fighters who actually worked their was up the WBC 154lb food chain only to get screwed.

i agree with what you are saying and i am in total agreement that the ratings should be applied in that the No1 & No2 rated fighters should be fighting for any vacant title as well as all champions should be forced to defend their title against the official No1 contenders instead of cherry-picking their opponents for large paydays... JAB can i now take it that you are of the same opinion as myself in that John Ruiz, Chris Byrd & Vitali Klitschko all of who was the official No1 contenders in the (IBF,WBA & WBC) ratings, was more worthy for to be given a title fight than Michael Grant, Frans Botha, Hasim Rahman & Mike Tyson for the Heavyweight Championship between 2000-2003 ?

[JAB5239]

i agree with what you are saying and i am in total agreement that the ratings should be applied in that the No1 & No2 rated fighters should be fighting for any vacant title as well as all champions should be forced to defend their title against the official No1 contenders instead of cherry-picking their opponents for large paydays... JAB can i now take it that you are of the same opinion as myself in that John Ruiz, Chris Byrd & Vitali Klitschko all of who was the official No1 contenders in the (IBF,WBA & WBC) ratings, was more worthy for to be given a title fight than Michael Grant, Frans Botha, Hasim Rahman & Mike Tyson for the Heavyweight Championship between 2000-2003 ?

Worthy? Yes. More worthy? That's debatable. I'm sure the alphabet soup groups thought so. Did it make sense for the public or HBO at the time? Thats another story. Grant was number 2 in the world by ring magazine in 1999 and the public and HBO were clamoring for the Lewis fight. At the time this wasn't some bum, but a guy thought to be the heir apparent.

Tyson was also number 2 in 2001 and everybody wanted that fight. In hindsight he wasn't worthy, but at the time plenty were giving him a chance.

Rahman was a top 10 fighter and supposed to be a victory. Was he more worthy than Ruiz or Byrd? No. Was the fight easier to make? Yes. At least Lewis was staying within the top 10 (ring magazine) to defend his title.

I don't remember the specifics on Botha, but you can hardly blame any fighter (as almost every one has done it) for taking a soft touch.

Not really sure at all what this has to do with Pac and Margs though.

[sonnyboyx2]

Worthy? Yes. More worthy? That's debatable. I'm sure the alphabet soup groups thought so. Did it make sense for the public or HBO at the time? Thats another story. Grant was number 2 in the world by ring magazine in 1999 and the public and HBO were clamoring for the Lewis fight. At the time this wasn't some bum, but a guy thought to be the heir apparent.

Tyson was also number 2 in 2001 and everybody wanted that fight. In hindsight he wasn't worthy, but at the time plenty were giving him a chance.

Rahman was a top 10 fighter and supposed to be a victory. Was he more worthy than Ruiz or Byrd? No. Was the fight easier to make? Yes. At least Lewis was staying within the top 10 (ring magazine) to defend his title.

I don't remember the specifics on Botha, but you can hardly blame any fighter (as almost every one has done it) for taking a soft touch.

Not really sure at all what this has to do with Pac and Margs though.

JAB... Let me just remind you of your previous comments which kind of contradict what you say in this reply:
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"Superior has nothing to do with it, it's about earning the right to fight for a particular title. Neither Pac nor Margs did that. Whats the point of rating fighters if we're not going to abide by the system and reward the fighters who have fought within it? The simple truth is this was about familiarity and money. The WBC stood to make far more money in sanctioning fee's from two fighters who weren't even active in that division than it did from pitting Angulo, Martiroysyan or Alvarez against one another. 3 fighters who actually worked their was up the WBC 154lb food chain only to get screwed."
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What did Tyson, Grant, Botha & Rahman do to deserve a title fight ahead of the official No1 contenders?

Time has proven that the 3 No1 contenders who was all avoided between 2000-2003 was vastly superior fighters to the 4 who was hand-picked as worthy opponents, it was also very clear at that time (2000-2003) that they was superior.

Those fighters above was all about "Formality & Money" like you say, yet chastise them here.

Pacquiao & Margarito fought for the "Vacant Title"

Ruiz, Byrd & Vitali all worked themselves "up the WBC, WBA & IBF Food Chain" only to get screwed, don't you agree?

If World title fights was to be scheduled by using the Ring Magazine ratings then the sport would have to be called farcical with Golden Boy Promotions the owners of that magazine being able to over rule all governing bodies and make match-ups with fighters of their own choice.

[JAB5239]

JAB... Let me just remind you of your previous comments which kind of contradict what you say in this reply:
-----------------------
"Superior has nothing to do with it, it's about earning the right to fight for a particular title. Neither Pac nor Margs did that. Whats the point of rating fighters if we're not going to abide by the system and reward the fighters who have fought within it? The simple truth is this was about familiarity and money. The WBC stood to make far more money in sanctioning fee's from two fighters who weren't even active in that division than it did from pitting Angulo, Martiroysyan or Alvarez against one another. 3 fighters who actually worked their was up the WBC 154lb food chain only to get screwed."
---------------------------------------
What did Tyson, Grant, Botha & Rahman do to deserve a title fight ahead of the official No1 contenders?

Time has proven that the 3 No1 contenders who was all avoided between 2000-2003 was vastly superior fighters to the 4 who was hand-picked as worthy opponents, it was also very clear at that time (2000-2003) that they was superior.

Those fighters above was all about "Formality & Money" like you say, yet chastise them here.

Pacquiao & Margarito fought for the "Vacant Title"

Ruiz, Byrd & Vitali all worked themselves "up the WBC, WBA & IBF Food Chain" only to get screwed, don't you agree?

If World title fights was to be scheduled by using the Ring Magazine ratings then the sport would have to be called farcical with Golden Boy Promotions the owners of that magazine being able to over rule all governing bodies and make match-ups with fighters of their own choice.

Sonny, you're so blinded by your dislike for Lewis you will try and twist any debate into something negative about him. Honestly my friend, its run its course.

Bottom line is neither Pac nor Margarito were ranked by that particular org and were given undeserved shots at a vacant title. One of them had never even fought that weight before and the other, besides 1 fight against a second rate fighter, hadn't fought there in years.

The biggest difference you seem to ignore is when Lewis was defending he was defending the lineal title, not a paper title controlled by some corrupt organization. As far as Pac and Marg go....the WBC leap frogged them over fighters in their own ranking to make a bigger money fight (sanctioning fees) instead. If you can't see the difference I can't help you.

PS - Oscar didn't buy The Ring till 2007, long after Lewis was gone.

[sonnyboyx2]

Sonny, you're so blinded by your dislike for Lewis you will try and twist any debate into something negative about him. Honestly my friend, its run its course.

Bottom line is neither Pac nor Margarito were ranked by that particular org and were given undeserved shots at a vacant title. One of them had never even fought that weight before and the other, besides 1 fight against a second rate fighter, hadn't fought there in years.
he biggest difference you
T seem to ignore is when Lewis was defending he was defending the lineal title, not a paper title controlled by some corrupt organization. As far as Pac and Marg go....the WBC leap frogged them over fighters in their own ranking to make a bigger money fight (sanctioning fees) instead. If you can't see the difference I can't help you.

PS - Oscar didn't buy The Ring till 2007, long after Lewis was gone.

JAB.. you are incorrect in claiming "i dislike Lewis" all i ever do is point out how his career unfolded and how there seems/was rules for Lewis and rules for every other boxer... Now your reply to my previous post points out exactly what i have always claimed in that you say "The biggest difference i seem to ignore is that Lewis was defending his linear Title".....Yet so was Riddick Bowe in 1993 and Lewis supporters like nothing better than to claim Bowe was scared of Lewis because he ditched the WBC belt.... so do you agree that Lewis was AFRAID of Ruiz & Byrd for ditching the WBA & IBF belts to fight Botha & Grant instead? ...... or like i always claim,"is there rules to say its ok for Lewis to do that and not other fighters"... Lewis was not afraid but other fighters are?

[JAB5239]

JAB.. you are incorrect in claiming "i dislike Lewis" all i ever do is point out how his career unfolded and how there seems/was rules for Lewis and rules for every other boxer... Now your reply to my previous post points out exactly what i have always claimed in that you say "The biggest difference i seem to ignore is that Lewis was defending his linear Title".....Yet so was Riddick Bowe in 1993 and Lewis supporters like nothing better than to claim Bowe was scared of Lewis because he ditched the WBC belt.... so do you agree that Lewis was AFRAID of Ruiz & Byrd for ditching the WBA & IBF belts to fight Botha & Grant instead? ...... or like i always claim,"is there rules to say its ok for Lewis to do that and not other fighters"... Lewis was not afraid but other fighters are?

Lewis-Bowe was the biggest fight to be made at the time, Bowe avoided it by fracturing the the unified title. Its not even remotely close to Byrd and Ruiz fights not happening. EVERYBODY wanted Bowe-Lewis. He gave up a title to get out of a fight the public was demanding.Lewis gave up titles to either make fights the people wanted or to avoid being forced into something nobody wanted to see.

[sonnyboyx2]

Lewis-Bowe was the biggest fight to be made at the time, Bowe avoided it by fracturing the the unified title. Its not even remotely close to Byrd and Ruiz fights not happening. EVERYBODY wanted Bowe-Lewis. He gave up a title to get out of a fight the public was demanding.Lewis gave up titles to either make fights the people wanted or to avoid being forced into something nobody wanted to see.

Coz Lennox would just keep him behind the jab all night then knock him out when he wanted coz Lennox was just too big and too heavy for him and Lennox beat every man who ever got in the ring with him and Lennox only ever lost because of a lucky punch and a referee who was Don Kins friend and who counted too fast when Lennox could have carried on and beat him, Lennox is Top 2 ATG Heavy and beats everyone 7 out of 10 times

[JAB5239]

Coz Lennox would just keep him behind the jab all night then knock him out when he wanted coz Lennox was just too big and too heavy for him and Lennox beat every man who ever got in the ring with him and Lennox only ever lost because of a lucky punch and a referee who was Don Kins friend and who counted too fast when Lennox could have carried on and beat him, Lennox is Top 2 ATG Heavy and beats everyone 7 out of 10 times

The facts speak for themselves. If you can't answer without the sarcastic BS,maybe you shouldn't answer at all. And next time, keep this in the proper thread. This is for discussing current event, ok?

[sonnyboyx2]

Lewis-Bowe was the biggest fight to be made at the time, Bowe avoided it by fracturing the the unified title. Its not even remotely close to Byrd and Ruiz fights not happening. EVERYBODY wanted Bowe-Lewis. He gave up a title to get out of a fight the public was demanding.Lewis gave up titles to either make fights the people wanted or to avoid being forced into something nobody wanted to see.

Lewis was unheard of outside London and you claim Everybody wanted Bowe v Lewis... Both sides knew it was only a £6 million gross fight. every fighter in the division was hoping to be the champion and chosen opponent of Mike Tyson the minute he got released from prison...Bowe received $30 million for his rematch with Holyfield, Lewis received £3 million for his fight with Tucker.... EVERYBODY was not wanting Bowe v Lewis...

JAB... how old was you in 1992 ?

[NChristo]

I belive film is not known to exsit of there 1st fight. But you never know and wound't be shocked if it did, would love to see it.

There is footage of their first fight it's just in poor quality, it's on Youtube even just do a quick search.