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Old 09-14-2017, 12:25 AM #41
Anthony342 Anthony342 is offline
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Originally Posted by Elroy The Great View Post
id put razor above those other 2. holmes and spinks were both cashing out (even though holmes went to to fight more fights).

watching a young tyson beat up a 40 y/o guy (after a 2 year layoff) was not impressive, imho.

pre prison resume, id give it a 4-4.5/10 as well.

he didnt see a semi live body until he fought pinklon (dope and booze fiend during this period).

i shouldnt be rough on tucker (questionable resume himself). he just didnt have the fortitude to deal with tyson. still, a good win.

the truth was a good win and was razor.

besides holmes and spinks, no one he beat had a legacy. they were just ''the next guy up''.

post release resume = 2/10; 15 opponents, only 2 worth mentioning.

he beat up those he was supposed to beat and was pretty much hapless vs legitimate opponents.

imho, if a fight fan wants to look at a carefully crafted career, tysons should come to mind. i forget the source (prob espn), his own managers knew tysons reign would be brief. that his opponents were picked specifically.

would have stayed that way if he didnt fall prey to don king.

to add, i think mike was railroaded with that washington cvnt. he wanted sex, she wanted money/attention.
Reminds me of a story comedian Patrice O' Neal told on the radio years ago about pulling a train on a girl when he was in high school and then when one of his friends yapped about it, she claimed she was raped. What stuck with me was when he said that even if a woman doesn't say it that if she even thinks no and is too afraid to say so, a guy can be convicted of rape.

In Tyson's case, it seemed more like it was either consensual and then she only complained later because he got too rough (an ex girlfriend of his or some woman he slept with later said to the press that Tyson injured her vagina after a night of love making) or, more likely, it started out consensual and then, when things got too rough, she changed her mind, wanted to stop, but Tyson kept going until he was done, which legally made it rape.

And when you say carefully planned, what does that mean here? I mean, were there better heavyweights in the '80s to early '90s that he avoided? By the time Holyfield and Lewis were big factors in the heavyweight division, Tyson was already in legal trouble. I remember seeing promo posters from a 1991 fight with Holyfield that would've taken place if he hadn't been in trouble. Nobody would say that his resume was really great. The only things I've seen and read about Tyson was that he unified the title and then even beat Spinks to become lineal champion. What more could he have done?
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Old 09-14-2017, 12:38 AM #42
Elroy The Great Elroy The Great is offline
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Originally Posted by Anthony342 View Post
Reminds me of a story comedian Patrice O' Neal told on the radio years ago about pulling a train on a girl when he was in high school and then when one of his friends yapped about it, she claimed she was raped. What stuck with me was when he said that even if a woman doesn't say it that if she even thinks no and is too afraid to say so, a guy can be convicted of rape.

In Tyson's case, it seemed more like it was either consensual and then she only complained later because he got too rough (an ex girlfriend of his or some woman he slept with later said to the press that Tyson injured her vagina after a night of love making) or, more likely, it started out consensual and then, when things got too rough, she changed her mind, wanted to stop, but Tyson kept going until he was done, which legally made it rape.

And when you say carefully planned, what does that mean here? I mean, were there better heavyweights in the '80s to early '90s that he avoided? By the time Holyfield and Lewis were big factors in the heavyweight division, Tyson was already in legal trouble. I remember seeing promo posters from a 1991 fight with Holyfield that would've taken place if he hadn't been in trouble. Nobody would say that his resume was really great. The only things I've seen and read about Tyson was that he unified the title and then even beat Spinks to become lineal champion. What more could he have done?
yeah, the law was very understanding to a woman who came to court crying. ''why would she put herself through this is if werent true ?!?!?''

finally the courts are recognizing the acting and vindictiveness of women.

as for tysons resume, people were having a good time watching him beat up the bums placed in front of him. again, i forget where the article came from, prob espn, jacobs and cayton discussed how they didnt expect tyson to last long (rooney may have also chimed in).

even though there wasnt too many threats out there, team tyson made sure they found the weakest of those available.

seriously, razor and maybe williams are his best wins and tyson wasnt the only one to stretch them.

razor and williams, like mike, lost to every credible opponent they fought.

i love the ko and tyson was on his way to becoming one of my favorite hw's.....but i got tired of seeing him vs the same type of opponent. and people give him credit for beating the crackheads that were fortunate enough to wear a belt

to each their own.
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Old 09-14-2017, 02:04 AM #43
Anthony342 Anthony342 is offline
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True, but he not only beat the belt holder, but Spinks, the lineal champ. What more was the guy supposed to do? I mean, are there guys Mike or his team deliberately ducked? I doubt Holyfield could've happened sooner, since Evander started his career as a cruiserweight, but maybe if he was a heavyweight from the start. I remember in school a guy telling me at the time, probably around 1989, that Holyfield has the best shot at beating Mike. This would've been when Lewis just turned pro after winning a second gold medal.

Oh and I love the KO too. Most of the career sets I watch are guys with a lot of them on their record, either the heavy handed bruiser types or guys with snap to their punches.
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Old 09-23-2017, 10:17 PM #44
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Old 09-24-2017, 02:26 AM #45
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Hey Nick Kyrigios, (sing to tune of YMCA) Hey Elroy Leroy WHY ARE YOU GAY? hey Leroy Elroy WHY ARE YOU GAY-HAY? You take ev-er-y- thing up your fucking ass, u can hang OUT WITH ALL YOUR BOYS. ELROY, theres no need to feel down, I SAID LEROY, get your - HAMMER77777 get pwnt - Shaolin Sword have some tissues to shove in your mouth fatty,mak yourself throw up cuz ur so fat,,,Hey Elroy Leroy WHY ARE YOU GAY? hey Leroy Elroy WHY ARE YOU GAY-HAY? You take ev-er-y- thing up your fucking ass, u can hang OUT WITH ALL YOUR BOYS. ELROY, theres n - Shaolin Sword Hey Nick Kyrigios, (sing to tune of YMCA) Hey Elroy Leroy WHY ARE YOU GAY? hey Leroy Elroy WHY ARE YOU GAY-HAY? You take ev-er-y- thing up your fucking ass, u can hang OUT WITH ALL YOUR BOYS. ELROY, theres no need to feel down, I SAID LEROY, get your - HAMMER77777 Just me and u now faggot.  Nobody here to help you.  SS will be here soon and youre about to get tag teamed, Aussie.  LOL, I run things here.  you are out - HAMMER77777 
WHY ARE YOU GAY-AY? - HAMMER77777 Your new song:  OK dude, I thought of this while I was mowing my Lawn.  This is what I came up with.  Yes, I just spent about Half Hour on this:   ELROY, there's no need to feel down I said, LEROY, pick yourself off the ground I said, ELROY, 'cause y - HAMMER77777 Elroy, theres no need to feel down, I SAID LEROY, he spells fuck like fuh-nuck, theres no need-to-be-a-faggot, REFRAIN, hey Elroy Letoy why are u gay? - HAMMER77777 sent plenty of reports to the mods too.  Losers Will be banned.  https://media.giphy.com/media/dIAYnXuaBzUli/200.gif - HAMMER77777 Elroy, theres no need to feel down, I SAID LEROY, he spells fuck like fuh-nuck, theres no need-to-be-a-faggot, REFRAIN, hey Elroy Letoy why are u gay? - HAMMER77777 
Elroy, theres no need to feel down, I SAID LEROY, he spells fuck like fuh-nuck, theres no need-to-be-a-faggot, REFRAIN, hey Elroy Letoy why are u gay? - HAMMER77777 Elroy, theres no need to feel down, I SAID LEROY, he spells fuck like fuh-nuck, theres no need-to-be-a-faggot, REFRAIN, hey Elroy Letoy why are u gay? - HAMMER77777 Elroy, theres no need to feel down, I SAID LEROY, he spells fuck like fuh-nuck, theres no need-to-be-a-faggot, REFRAIN, hey Elroy Letoy why are u gay? - HAMMER77777 Elroy, theres no need to feel down, I SAID LEROY, he spells fuck like fuh-nuck, theres no need-to-be-a-faggot, REFRAIN, hey Elroy Letoy why are u gay? - HAMMER77777 Elroy, theres no need to feel down, I SAID LEROY, he spells fuck like fuh-nuck, theres no need-to-be-a-faggot, REFRAIN, hey Elroy Letoy why are u gay? - HAMMER77777 
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True, but he not only beat the belt holder, but Spinks, the lineal champ. What more was the guy supposed to do? I mean, are there guys Mike or his team deliberately ducked? I doubt Holyfield could've happened sooner, since Evander started his career as a cruiserweight, but maybe if he was a heavyweight from the start. I remember in school a guy telling me at the time, probably around 1989, that Holyfield has the best shot at beating Mike. This would've been when Lewis just turned pro after winning a second gold medal.

Oh and I love the KO too. Most of the career sets I watch are guys with a lot of them on their record, either the heavy handed bruiser types or guys with snap to their punches.
sry i missed this. you didnt quote me

you cant fight whos not there. im not dissing mike on that....but ill be damned if i credit him either. he merely took out the trash. imho, those fake champs were not meant to keep those titles.

as weve witnessed, mike was an abject failure vs the few top guys he fought. not remotely competitive. even worse, he was the definition of a typical classless bully.

theres something weirdly fascinating about watching a guy get ktfo. the rubbery leg dance, that glazed look in the eyes, the stumbling and bumbling around the ring....a sight to behold

sry to mike fans but i have a thing against bullies. i wanted to like mike and for him to retire having beaten every top hw there was. but then he went with don king.
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Old 09-24-2017, 09:18 AM #46
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Old 09-24-2017, 07:15 PM #47
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Whilst Tyson was crippled by a host of terrors which stemmed from his miserable childhood I think it's a fundamental mistake to equate this with a lack of "heart".

I thought he showed plenty of guts against Buster Douglas. In the Lewis fight he continued to soak up brutal punishment long after his corner should have done the decent thing, thrown the towel in and saved their man from unnecessary suffering.

I've heard plenty of armchair critics claim he took the "easy way out" against Holyfield by chewing off his ear. And yet Holy's rough-house antics that night could easily have resulted in a disqualification. So sure, Mike was wrong to do what he did. But only after his opponent had busted him up so badly his mind flipped.

Psychologically broken? Yes. A coward? No.
very well stated he could be frustrated but he was no coward and respected his place in the sport.
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Old 09-24-2017, 10:29 PM #48
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Whilst Tyson was crippled by a host of terrors which stemmed from his miserable childhood I think it's a fundamental mistake to equate this with a lack of "heart".

I thought he showed plenty of guts against Buster Douglas. In the Lewis fight he continued to soak up brutal punishment long after his corner should have done the decent thing, thrown the towel in and saved their man from unnecessary suffering.

I've heard plenty of armchair critics claim he took the "easy way out" against Holyfield by chewing off his ear. And yet Holy's rough-house antics that night could easily have resulted in a disqualification. So sure, Mike was wrong to do what he did. But only after his opponent had busted him up so badly his mind flipped.

Psychologically broken? Yes. A coward? No.
I don't think Mike is a coward, he just had some issues and the guy did take some beatings and stood in there.

If Mike were a coward, he wouldn't have toughed it out and beat Razor Ruddock in the two battles they had with one another.
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Old 09-25-2017, 04:22 AM #49
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Originally Posted by Mugwump View Post
Whilst Tyson was crippled by a host of terrors which stemmed from his miserable childhood I think it's a fundamental mistake to equate this with a lack of "heart".

I thought he showed plenty of guts against Buster Douglas. In the Lewis fight he continued to soak up brutal punishment long after his corner should have done the decent thing, thrown the towel in and saved their man from unnecessary suffering.

I've heard plenty of armchair critics claim he took the "easy way out" against Holyfield by chewing off his ear. And yet Holy's rough-house antics that night could easily have resulted in a disqualification. So sure, Mike was wrong to do what he did. But only after his opponent had busted him up so badly his mind flipped.

Psychologically broken? Yes. A coward? No.
When he bit off Evander's ear I just saw it as Tyson losing his cool beyond belief and going nuts, but afterwards probably thinking "WTF did I just do"
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Old 09-25-2017, 10:05 AM #50
Anthony342 Anthony342 is offline
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Then why do it twice?
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