Controversial Alex Kid: If you want to put on weight, put on fat not muscle!

[AlexKid]

More muscle does let you punch harder though. Even bodybuilders who dont train for strength are strong because they have so much muscle mass. Muscle is what lets you generate force and power along with learning how to use it.

Having muscle mass instead of fat can cause you to gas quicker, but thats only because you hit harder. If you hit with the same force it wouldnt make a difference.

As youve said, if you work on cardio a lot you wont gas anyways. You might as well have the best of both worlds.

Ok now that is a good sound counter argument.

Definitely good cardio and big muscles can exist but would the cardio and work rate be better wo the muscles? If so it breaks your argument, because working that much more inside the ring is a better asset that the muscles while still having good cardio

Bodybuilders dont hit hard at all, no harder than a man who eats too much and has made himself heavy with fat.

Boxers will be trying to put on functional mass but its has such a limited weak cross over into punching power, that the difference is negligible, but the difference in cardio is significant ie muscle drains it.

Go do squats for 3 months come back and tell me how much your punching power went up, NOT MUCH! I guarantee it. You will jump higher run faster and lift more but the punching power increase would be much less than the strength increase.

Muscle mass doesn't make you hit much harder at all, the weight of the muscles yes, but the muscle mass is not generating much more force, the weight could be in fat and have a simlar effect in power

[AlexKid]

Im not saying im right im searching for a counter argument that PROVES me wrong I dont see one

[HedonisticFrog]

Ok now that is a good sound counter argument.

Definitely good cardio and big muscles can exist but would the cardio and work rate be better wo the muscles? If so it breaks your argument, because working that much more inside the ring is a better asset that the muscles while still having good cardio

Bodybuilders dont hit hard at all, no harder than a man who eats too much and has made himself heavy with fat.

Boxers will be trying to put on functional mass but its has such a limited weak cross over into punching power, that the difference is negligible, but the difference in cardio is significant ie muscle drains it.

Go do squats for 3 months come back and tell me how much your punching power went up, NOT MUCH! I guarantee it. You will jump higher run faster and lift more but the punching power increase would be much less than the strength increase.

Muscle mass doesn't make you hit much harder at all, the weight of the muscles yes, but the muscle mass is not generating much more force, the weight could be in fat and have a simlar effect in power

What makes you think muscle mass doesnt make you hit harder?

Just take a look at this gif. Especially the slow motion hook. His body rotates and then his shoulder transfers the momentum of his torso into his arm. His arm rotates much faster than his torso as well. This shows how his shoulder needs to be strong enough not only to transfer his bodys momentum, but to generate more as well for it to move that quickly. Your arms and shoulders are the weakest link in the punching chain, so if you make them stronger you will punch harder. Youre only as strong as your weakest link.

[AlexKid]

What makes you think muscle mass doesnt make you hit harder?

Just take a look at this gif. Especially the slow motion hook. His body rotates and then his shoulder transfers the momentum of his torso into his arm. His arm rotates much faster than his torso as well. This shows how his shoulder needs to be strong enough not only to transfer his bodys momentum, but to generate more as well for it to move that quickly. Your arms and shoulders are the weakest link in the punching chain, so if you make them stronger you will punch harder. Youre only as strong as your weakest link.

mostly fat , u really think its teh weight of his ******* crashing through that guys skull? His well droopy swingers that cause the momentum? Or rather his fat ass legs and torso?


very little upperbody compared to guys in his division hits the hardest


upper body weight which is a minuscule amount of weight compared to the rest of the body makes little to no difference


you just saw the shoulder snap of a heavily muscled person punching and assumed it was the follow through of his upper body mass that did the damage and you were wrong

its his whole body and most of the weight came from below his belt, not his upper body, even though it was very large

You saw, you assumed, you got it wrong

[HedonisticFrog]

mostly fat , u really think its teh weight of his ******* crashing through that guys skull? His well droopy swingers that cause the momentum? Or rather his fat ass legs and torso?


very little upperbody compared to guys in his division hits the hardest


upper body weight which is a minuscule amount of weight compared to the rest of the body makes little to no difference


you just saw the shoulder snap of a heavily muscled person punching and assumed it was the follow through of his upper body mass that did the damage and you were wrong

its his whole body and most of the weight came from below his belt, not his upper body, even though it was very large

You saw, you assumed, you got it wrong

Your first gif proves you wrong. His torso isnt even rotating at all, hes using all shoulder to knock his opponent out. Thus proves the importance of upper body strength. Youre the one assuming that the force is coming from his legs even though his shoulders arent even moving.

Upper body mass isnt negligeable. Especially when you consider that your upper body and even more so arms move faster and thus create more momentum. Its like putting weights in your gloves to hit harder. Except instead its having bigger arms and forearms.

Do you hit harder with weights in your hand wraps? Of course, and thats why its against the rules of boxing. If youre just fat your arms are smaller and it doesnt have the same advantage.

[HedonisticFrog]

I did a little research and there's a scientific study that support my claims. In the study they looked at elite karate athletes and found that one rep max of bench press and squats was positively correlated with punch acceleration. By necessity the punching force would be greater as well because they are generating more momentum. A greater amount of muscle mass contributes to strength, you only have to look at power lifting to see that. The higher the weight class the higher the records are. So the more muscle mass you have, the harder you will hit.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24276310

[AlexKid]

Your first gif proves you wrong. His torso isnt even rotating at all, hes using all shoulder to knock his opponent out. Thus proves the importance of upper body strength. Youre the one assuming that the force is coming from his legs even though his shoulders arent even moving.

Upper body mass isnt negligeable. Especially when you consider that your upper body and even more so arms move faster and thus create more momentum. Its like putting weights in your gloves to hit harder. Except instead its having bigger arms and forearms.

Do you hit harder with weights in your hand wraps? Of course, and thats why its against the rules of boxing. If youre just fat your arms are smaller and it doesnt have the same advantage.

You just proved you cant throw a punch bro, the other people who can will see what I mean, unless you are trolling


Well the arms have alot of leverage for weights to be attached the upper body does not, add to that the fact that the upper body has so little weight compared to the midsection legs and hips together that your point is a mute one.

[AlexKid]

I did a little research and there's a scientific study that support my claims. In the study they looked at elite karate athletes and found that one rep max of bench press and squats was positively correlated with punch acceleration. By necessity the punching force would be greater as well because they are generating more momentum. A greater amount of muscle mass contributes to strength, you only have to look at power lifting to see that. The higher the weight class the higher the records are. So the more muscle mass you have, the harder you will hit.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24276310

Size is poorly correlated with strength although its a definite positive correlation.

You can get alot of mass without much strength increase, so those power lifters in the HW division have a very inefficient strength to size ratio compared to other power lifters in lower classes because it makes no difference if they have extra hypertrophy/calories it may help them a bit so they do it, it doesn't help their strength proportionately like you suggest. - This is not something smart to do in boxing where cardio is a huge factor


Strength has a poor correlation to punching power but again its a positive one so the scientific study is right but they dont show the weak improvement in punching power compared to the big improvement in strength or speed in normal movements.

[AlexKid]

If you want strength for boxing to improve power do this




Not that





You can get insanely strong wo much/any size increase, so why would you want a whole load of useless cardio burning muscle mass for the same level of strength and less speed?


YOU REALLY THINK THAT SKINNY POWER LIFTER DOESN'T HAVE ENOUGH STRENGTH FOR BOXING AND NEEDS TO HYPERTROPHY BIG MUSCLES TO GAIN A LITTLE BIT MORE STRENGTH?

OR DOES HE ALREADY HAVE EXTREME AMOUNTS WAY ABOVE ANYTHING HE WILL NEED IN BOXING?

[Richard P]

Not that I want to get in the way of this budding romance but fat vs muscle in absorbing shots?????