Is there a Valid Argument that Gonzalez is P4P King?

[Tom Cruise]

Imagine if Floyd fought an 16-2 guy

Gary Russell Jnr is chasing after a guy who is 5-1

What a bum right? Why would he bother chasing a fight with a crappy record fighter like Lomachenko?

Its almost as if just looking at numbers without context doesnt really work

[daggum]

Kovalev has a superior resume, as does Bradley, as does Wlad, as does Canelo and so on. Heck, Khan has a better resume. In terms of a combination of skill and power, GGG is probably better and Kovalev is most definitely better.

There's an argument for Gonalez being a p4p top 10 guy but being number one is nothing more than HBO trying to create a new pocket sized star but he has none of the dynamism or personality of Naz neither does he have the rivalries of Barrera/Morales/Pacquiao/JMM.

I like to what him fight though so the p4p argument is kinda irrelevant in my eyes.

kovalev/canelo/khan better resume? gonzalez beat the #1 guy in 2 divisions and beat estrada who is ranked #1 right now among other good quality fighters like highly ranked viloria and takayama who was ranked #2 years after losing to gonzalez. how do they have better resumes? i am confused. khan's never even beaten the best in any division. kovalev either. canelo yes but it was super debatable against lara and cotto obv that lineage was not very legit with martinz losing to murray and being crippled so i give gonzalez the edge resume wise but also performance wise which is a factor. wlad and bradley you could say maybe but they just lost. bradley's resume is def not better unless you coutn the pac win which was a loss. wlad's resume over the years maybe but he just lost and fights like the povetkin fight were not legit.

there really is no one that has the resume and continues to win legit like gonzalez. obv he has to keep winning, he can't sit back floyd style and cherry pick otherwise other guys like kov will pass him but if he beats estrada, ruenrueng, or inoyoue in the next year he should prob remain #1 in my book.

[WarVeteranO01]

Ok so he isnt the best fight available, but just dismissing him as a '16-2 guy' doesnt make sense given that he is a good dangerous opponent.

I feel you man, I was actually defending Gonzalez in my original post, I prefer the lower weights. Next fight should be a titlist though...

[soul_survivor]

kovalev/canelo/khan better resume? gonzalez beat the #1 guy in 2 divisions and beat estrada who is ranked #1 right now among other good quality fighters like highly ranked viloria and takayama who was ranked #2 years after losing to gonzalez. how do they have better resumes? i am confused. khan's never even beaten the best in any division. kovalev either. canelo yes but it was super debatable against lara and cotto obv that lineage was not very legit with martinz losing to murray and being crippled so i give gonzalez the edge resume wise but also performance wise which is a factor. wlad and bradley you could say maybe but they just lost. bradley's resume is def not better unless you coutn the pac win which was a loss. wlad's resume over the years maybe but he just lost and fights like the povetkin fight were not legit.

there really is no one that has the resume and continues to win legit like gonzalez. obv he has to keep winning, he can't sit back floyd style and cherry pick otherwise other guys like kov will pass him but if he beats estrada, ruenrueng, or inoyoue in the next year he should prob remain #1 in my book.

You can't say number 1 guy or number 2 guy got beat. Who were these guys? How many of them were better than Hopkins, Pascal, Judah, Maidana, Lara, Cotto? Were any of them even as good? C'mon now. Estrada is the only true stand out, maybe you can add in Viloria but that's stretching it.

You can add in names like Yaegashi, Fuentes, Medina but none of them would be considered as good or most importantly, better than the guys I named, certainly not names like Hopkins and Cotto.

And, if you really want to go with rankings, Khan beat the top 3 or 5 guys in his division on 4 separate occasions, twice when many thought he would lose and unified titles in the process. Then he beat a top 10 guy in another division. Canelo holds a win over two top 5 guys in his division (Trout and Lara) and the lineal middleweight champion of the world. Kovalev beat an ATG and a former numero uno who was still top 5 when they first fought.

I've talked to a lot of Roman fans who believe he should be number one but none of them boast about his resume in this way, they know how to keep it real. Does he pass the eye test and look the real deal? Most certainly. I've followed his career before the p4p fiasco and HBO push. He has power and skill but he isn't a great fighter and doesn't deserve the spot of great fighters.

[Tom Cruise]

For the record:

The winner of Ward vs. Kovalev is going to take the top spot on my list unless there is a rubbish outcome to the fight (TD after five rounds or summat).

HBO needs to start seriously pursuing the Estrada/Inuoue/Ruenroeng fights if they want the buzz around Gonzalez to continue.

[Eff Pandas]

The whole concept of P4P (if everyone was the same size who would be the best) is built on bullshi7 so I think you could make a valid claim a lot of guys are #1. Its a fantasy scifi conversation from the jump.

[daggum]

You can't say number 1 guy or number 2 guy got beat. Who were these guys? How many of them were better than Hopkins, Pascal, Judah, Maidana, Lara, Cotto? Were any of them even as good? C'mon now. Estrada is the only true stand out, maybe you can add in Viloria but that's stretching it.

You can add in names like Yaegashi, Fuentes, Medina but none of them would be considered as good or most importantly, better than the guys I named, certainly not names like Hopkins and Cotto.

And, if you really want to go with rankings, Khan beat the top 3 or 5 guys in his division on 4 separate occasions, twice when many thought he would lose and unified titles in the process. Then he beat a top 10 guy in another division. Canelo holds a win over two top 5 guys in his division (Trout and Lara) and the lineal middleweight champion of the world. Kovalev beat an ATG and a former numero uno who was still top 5 when they first fought.

I've talked to a lot of Roman fans who believe he should be number one but none of them boast about his resume in this way, they know how to keep it real. Does he pass the eye test and look the real deal? Most certainly. I've followed his career before the p4p fiasco and HBO push. He has power and skill but he isn't a great fighter and doesn't deserve the spot of great fighters.

you are dismissing proven elite fighters simpy because you aren't familiar with them. how do you know how good they are if you don't know them?

these guys were no charles martins. niida was a titlist for 4 years and the #1 guy in the division when gonzalez destroyed him. yaigashi was the linear champ and became a 3 weight division after losing to gonalez. takayama became unified champ after losing to gonalez. why are you acting like they were bums because you have never heard of them? thats letting your western bias get the best of you.

also roman beat these guys when they were prime. estrada, niida, takayama and yaegashi were prime. no one would ever say kovalev over hopkins or canelo over cotto were prime victories. maybe you could make an argument they were better prime fighters but they were far removed from that. you think those guys will have meaningful wins or careers after losing those fights? i sure don't and that matters a lot at least to me.

[aldo5408]

can we just rename this the ignorance thread? many people had arroya beating ruenroeng(i know threadstarter has no idea who this is so he must be a bum) but everyone else knows ruenroeng is one of the best in the division and he's currently ranked #2. they fought in ruenroeng's home country and arroya didn't get the decision. that happens a lot in boxing but that doesn't mean you have to be ignorant and pretend the guy is a bum because you don't know about him. arroya is a debatable decision away from being the #2 guy in the division. him being 16-2 doesn't matter. he has proven he is a good fighter but he hasn't gotten the breaks and you are punishing him even more with your ignorance.

How can you say ruenneoing is one of the best. When he fights like a mma fighter. Clinches, throwdowns, punches behind the head and tripping that makes you one of the best

[_Maxi]

16-2 type guys don't belong with P4P king.

But Berto, Guerrero, Ortiz, etc. Those are names for the P4P #1 to fight if he's black right?

[daggum]

How can you say ruenneoing is one of the best. When he fights like a mma fighter. Clinches, throwdowns, punches behind the head and tripping that makes you one of the best

i don't know people say ward, wlad, postol etc...are elite fighters so i'm just using their own standards. of course hes complete garbage and when someone tries to bring it to him he clinches nonstop but thats the system we live in.