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Old 02-18-2018, 11:44 PM #81
OctoberRed OctoberRed is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr.MojoRisin' View Post
The only fighter that could potentially give Dempsey trouble is Joshua. Not in a Gene Tunney sort of way but a Luis Firpo if you catch my drift. Although his stamina isn't good he can definitely brawl for a few rounds before he seriously gasses. Him and Dempsey would get into heated exchanges but the difference between Joshua and Firpo is Joshua isn't gutsy enough to come out and put everything into a right hand at the opening bell.

It's hard to say how Dempsey does against giants because the only fight we have of Dempsey against a giant, Dempsey massacres him in the first round. Would be interesting to see comparisons like the very short Fulton fight and the Morris fights.
I think Dempsey would have a lot of trouble with someone like Wilder or a Fury (when on his game). Of course these are what's becoming the normal super heavyweights of this era.
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Old 02-19-2018, 08:00 AM #82
Mr.MojoRisin' Mr.MojoRisin' is offline
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I think Dempsey would have a lot of trouble with someone like Wilder or a Fury (when on his game). Of course these are what's becoming the normal super heavyweights of this era.
I'm not sold on Wilder's chin and Dempsey thrived when fighters got while and made mistakes. Wilder fits that bill perfectly.

Fury would be a good fight although he's on the slow end which counts against him heavy imo.
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Old 02-20-2018, 12:58 AM #83
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I'm not sold on Wilder's chin and Dempsey thrived when fighters got while and made mistakes. Wilder fits that bill perfectly.

Fury would be a good fight although he's on the slow end which counts against him heavy imo.
Wilder only seems to do that when he can get away with it. When he fought Stiverne the first time, he never really got wild and was pretty much boxing with care for 12 rounds.
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Old 02-20-2018, 04:34 PM #84
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Wilder only seems to do that when he can get away with it. When he fought Stiverne the first time, he never really got wild and was pretty much boxing with care for 12 rounds.
Yeah and I consider Dempsey a lot more dangerous than Wilder. Dempsey was more technically sound than Wilder so it's either him taking over the fight or Wilder knocking him out
(low chance).
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Old 02-20-2018, 08:45 PM #85
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Default You guys have been at this for quite some time now, 80 years now, and still no consen

Re: the below post. (NY Times 11/11/39) The 1912 Sims Act (prohibition against fight films moving interstate) was in the process of being repealed (and would be in just a few months).

Everyone was getting daring and pulling out their old (illegal) fight films and having parties. I think you will enjoy where their conversation ended up.

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Old 02-22-2018, 06:03 PM #86
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Don't think hes got a chance with Wlad but could he do guys in like fury, haye, charr, Wilder and others. Or even old Vitali? Or is he simply too small and would be outboxed?
I would favour Dempsey over all those guys.

I believe he would knockout Holyfield and Tyson as well.

Dempsey was more than just the dumb brawler he gets painted out to be...
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Old 02-22-2018, 07:27 PM #87
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Agreed 100% Norman Mailer was a great writer and when he wrote about George Foreman in Playboy of all places, he made Foreman out to be a shark, a monster with no conscience, a sociopathic killer who destroyed heavyweight bags and men... And it was great to read, but accurate? Well...George foreman was also an immature kid, a man child whom, by his own admission had to stop boxing for a while and reevaluate life.

It seems like many individuals were gunning for Dempsey at points in his life. The thing is.... and people are so ready to neglect this...The thing about Dempsey that enemies and friend all seem to admit is that Dempsey was a straight shooter. he was honest about his feelings. perhaps some of the stories about Dempsey are worth considering but, for one thing when Wills was challenging, he was not that good, so it was not strange for Dempsey to avoid him, and most stories about hand wraps, etc seem very convenient when they make an appearance.

The thing that everyone has to be aware of is that fighters before the modern era, characterized by the advent of Louis, did things for different reasons than modern fighters. Kid Mccoy, Dempsey, etc were right near the bare knuckle era and in that era the major preoccupation with fighters were the hands: Keeping them from breaking. For example, take a full shot at a person's forehead and see how your hand feels. Boxers, like Mike Tyson against Green for example, break the hand when it is not gloved, happens a lot in street fights (take it from a former bouncer).

When gloves were first used, and were small, the problems with the hand did not diminish. The hands had to be wrapped in a manner where they would not break and this was the reason why corners tried to do different wraps, not to hit harder. Interesting aside is that boxing trainers cited Kid Mccoy as using a corkskrew motion to "cut" the opponent and to jar the opponent at the last instant, so whatever wraps he was aiming to use were more to keep the integrity of the gloves not so much the impact. But fighters and their corners were tasked with making sure the hands could be protected.
Did you write this to say that even when the guy's trainer admit to wrapping his hands with tape that hardened to the point of causing "unusual damage," a trainer that said it while he was STILL working with Dempsey. A trainer who gave the interview to a critically acclaimed reporter, whose article was then dug up and reported on by another critically acclaimed reporter...

You think that it was false information? This was straight from the mouth of the man who wrapped his hands....and both of their careers together weren't over.
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Old 02-22-2018, 09:10 PM #88
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irrelevant to the original argument but . . .

why do people think that because reporters give each other awards (critical acclaim) it means they are actually good at what they do?

Reporters take turns giving each other awards, stay around long enough and everyone becomes a critically acclaimed reporter. - It happens in every profession; are you familiar with the military term: 'a dong'?

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Old 02-23-2018, 12:19 AM #89
billeau2 billeau2 is offline
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Did you write this to say that even when the guy's trainer admit to wrapping his hands with tape that hardened to the point of causing "unusual damage," a trainer that said it while he was STILL working with Dempsey. A trainer who gave the interview to a critically acclaimed reporter, whose article was then dug up and reported on by another critically acclaimed reporter...

You think that it was false information? This was straight from the mouth of the man who wrapped his hands....and both of their careers together weren't over.
Wrote it to say that regardless of a reporter making a statement as to "why" a wrap of one sort, or another was done, the real concern for fighters was not to harden the hands but to protect the hands from breaking. At this time in history a fighters methods were not as regulated and many fighters used different types of substances to wrap the hands and to harden the hands.

It is easy to turn around and then claim that these methods were cheating, a way for a fighter to harm others, etc. The truth is that fighters of that time engaged in wrappings of different times, to stabilize the hands.

You have a real hard on for dempsey but most fighters of this time had corners that jealously guarded different wraps, that were used for the fighter, as for example, Kid Mccoy. The great John Sullivan allegedlly used among other things: Oil skin, pickle juice, Shellack, and other such things on his hands. It was just common practice
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Knowing this, I don't automatically assume there were not other motivations, and other information involved. I don't buy it lock stock and barrel any more than I would buy the testimony of Jack London, a well educated writer, a boxing reporter and a person who was motivated to claim that Black fighters were inferior....All these journalists had axes to grind, so I look at them suspiciosly. to say the least.

Certainly its possible Dempsey was a cheat and a lowlife, but if you want consideration for that idea, correlate the type of testimony to other more reliable data source material..Hence my admonition that there is evidence historically, and through the gyms, through other fighters like Tunney, etc that Dempsey was a straight shooter, you get what I was trying to say now? lol. So in fact the testimony of a journalist, when journalists could be non reliable, something it would be nice to hear you just aknowledge frankly... does not seem to jibe with the testimony of many others who knew Jack.

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Old 02-23-2018, 05:05 AM #90
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I love jack Dempsey. He was a tough sob and a hell of a fighter. But I think most top fighters today would stop him if he was at 185. Just too much size difference. I'm sure he would surprise us and knock a few out.

Now give him modern day nutrition and supps, take him to 205-10, he might do a lot better. But I don't see him beating Vitali. Just way too much size difference. Willard was a cowboy who didn't box til he was 27. A big, strong, tough dude, but basically just an oaf in the ring.
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