DOW drops 640 pts, worst Christmas Eve ever for stock market

[Xoo]

How did printing money work out for Venezuela & Zimbabwe?

Venezuela and Zimbabwe can't force Saudi Arabia to sell their oil in their currency.

Odd you would mention those countries since you'd probably agree with everything their governments did.

Stop being fooled by Trump’s bs as interest rates are still relatively low & these increases have been scheduled for month

Increasing the interest rate from 1 percent to 2 percent is basically doubling it.

Markets want leadership & certainty

Trump provides neither

So when the market skyrocketed after Trump was sworn in that had nothing to do with him. Now that it is crashing that's his fault.

This is why I rarely discuss economics.

[Furn]

Someone was gonna pay for the trillions gifted to the elite by Trump and it wasnt gonna be the elite.

[siablo14]

Got hit with the banhammer.



Not my theory bud.



Gold or at least a system where the government prints the money instead of private banking interests.

Gold standard is highly inflexible and makes it hard to fight recession/ down-turns in the market.

The Federal Reserve System Board of Governors is a federal agency. They oversee the Federal Reserve Banks.

The US Treasury Department is who does the printing of money. Not the Federal Reserve.

[Xoo]

Gold standard is highly inflexible and makes it hard to fight recession/ down-turns in the market.

Actually I believe if there was a gold standard there wouldn't be recessions because it would be impossible to rack up the insane amounts of debt the current system allows.

The Federal Reserve System Board of Governors is a federal agency. They oversee the Federal Reserve Banks.

I believe that is just a fig leaf to hide what it really is.

The US Treasury Department is who does the printing of money. Not the Federal Reserve.

Yes, the literal printing of dollars is done by the Treasury Department. Most money does not exist as bills and coins. It exists as a number in a computer somewhere. I have money in the bank. The bank doesn't keep that as physical currency.

[siablo14]

Actually I believe if there was a gold standard there wouldn't be recessions because it would be impossible to rack up the insane amounts of debt the current system allows.

There were recessions during the gold standard era.

I believe that is just a fig leaf to hide what it really is.

If it isn't some conspiracy sh**t. Let me know what you got.
Remember the Reserve Banks do not get to keep their profits. The profits are turned over to the US Treasury.

Yes, the literal printing of dollars is done by the Treasury Department. Most money does not exist as bills and coins. It exists as a number in a computer somewhere. I have money in the bank. The bank doesn't keep that as physical currency.

Yes. They do it it by buying or selling treasuries and other securities when appropriate.

If the economy is in a slump they will buy treasuries to return credit/cash to the market. If the market is overheating they will sell treasuries to take excess credit/cash out of the market.

[Xoo]

There were recessions during the gold standard era.

There were booms and busts but not because of the gold standard.

If it isn't some conspiracy sh**t. Let me know what you got.

I'm pretty sure you consider even Stephen Molyneux to be "conspiracy ****" so...

The Biggest Scam In United States History

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsqGR31zoVA&t=1116s

Remember the Reserve Banks do not get to keep their profits. The profits are turned over to the US Treasury.

Source? AFAIK the Fed has never been audited so we have no idea where the profits go or how big they are.

Yes. They do it it by buying or selling treasuries and other securities when appropriate.

If the economy is in a slump they will buy treasuries to return credit/cash to the market. If the market is overheating they will sell treasuries to take excess credit/cash out of the market.

I don't recall the Fed ever selling treasuries to take credit / cash out of the market. Maybe they did that during the great Depression as a way to **** over the general population.

They do raise interest rates which lowers the amount of money lent which decreases the amount of money in the system.

[siablo14]

There were booms and busts but not because of the gold standard.

Exactly and the flexible system to fight those booms and busts is ideal. Booms and busts are caused for different reasons.

I'm pretty sure you consider even Stephen Molyneux to be "conspiracy ****" so...

The Biggest Scam In United States History

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsqGR31zoVA&t=1116s[/url

]
As expected. I will pass.

Source? AFAIK the Fed has never been audited so we have no idea where the profits go or how big they are.

However, owning Reserve Bank stock is quite different from owning stock in a private company. The Reserve Banks are not operated for profit, and ownership of a certain amount of stock is, by law, a condition of membership in the System. In fact, the Reserve Banks are required by law to transfer net earnings to the U.S. Treasury, after providing for all necessary expenses of the Reserve Banks, legally required dividend payments, and maintaining a limited balance in a surplus fund.
https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_14986.htm

Example of Fed returning profits to the Treasury:

The Fed Delivered $80.2 Billion in Profits to the Treasury in 2017

The Fed, which remits its profits to the Treasury Department, disclosed on Wednesday that its payments last year totaled $80.2 billion — about 12 percent less than the $91.5 billion in 2016.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/10/business/fed-profits-treasury-2017.html

I don't recall the Fed ever selling treasuries to take credit / cash out of the market. Maybe they did that during the great Depression as a way to **** over the general population.

They do raise interest rates which lowers the amount of money lent which decreases the amount of money in the system.

The Federal Reserve has been selling bonds it purchased to pull the economy out of the financial crisis. Now, it has begun preparing for what could be an early end to this program.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/14/the-fed-steps-toward-an-early-exit-from-its-balance-sheet-reduction.html

Examples of the Fed selling treasuries:

Under the Fed plan, it is required to sell $620 billion in Treasurys and $420 billion in mortgage backed securities (MBS) by the end of 2019. It can sell other assets but the focus will be on reducing these two security classes.

It should have sold $88 billion in MBS up to this point. It has only eliminated $58 billion. The reason for the shortfall here is that the Fed keeps buying MBS with maturities under ten years while it sells its longer duration securities.

On the Treasury side, the Fed should have sold $132 billion. It has sold $128 billion (the Fed has also net reduced other assets like agency securities, loans, etc. by $12 billion). What is notable here is that virtually all of the selling has been in maturities of one to five years. The Fed has only sold 2.2 percent of its longer dated Treasurys and it keeps buying short-term Treasury debt.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/07/bove-jamie-dimon-knows-what-he-is-talking-about-on-danger-warnings.html

[Xoo]

Exactly and the flexible system to fight those booms and busts is ideal. Booms and busts are caused for different reasons.

Yes, but the current money system is a major reason why booms and busts happen in the first place. The current system allows an insane amount of debt to be racked up, in fact it requires an ever increasing amount of debt to be racked up and it will eventually totally crash. If you're young enough and I think you are, you'll see this for yourself. "They" may try to start a major war so they can blame that for this happening.

However, owning Reserve Bank stock is quite different from owning stock in a private company. The Reserve Banks are not operated for profit, and ownership of a certain amount of stock is, by law, a condition of membership in the System. In fact, the Reserve Banks are required by law to transfer net earnings to the U.S. Treasury, after providing for all necessary expenses of the Reserve Banks, legally required dividend payments, and maintaining a limited balance in a surplus fund.
https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_14986.htm

Example of Fed returning profits to the Treasury:


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/10/b...sury-2017.html

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/14/the-...reduction.html

Examples of the Fed selling treasuries:


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/07/bove...-warnings.html

I trust those sources about as much as you trust mine. I wish I was better versed in the Federal Reserve so I could refute it but I spend most of my time looking into other issues.

[siablo14]

Yes, but the current money system is a major reason why booms and busts happen in the first place. The current system allows an insane amount of debt to be racked up, in fact it requires an ever increasing amount of debt to be racked up and it will eventually totally crash. If you're young enough and I think you are, you'll see this for yourself. "They" may try to start a major war so they can blame that for this happening.

The current system is the major cause?
Then why did they occur during the gold standard period?

We saw the Great Recession and saw how the Fed got out of it with its mechanisms. Remember unemployment has been low for a couple of years.

I trust those sources about as much as you trust mine. I wish I was better versed in the Federal Reserve so I could refute it but I spend most of my time looking into other issues.

Your sources are folks who just get up and say something without the source to back it.

Go check the Fed financial records and you will see the evidence. If you don't want to read a specific medium that reports it. Just go straight to the Fed yourself.

[Xoo]

The current system is the major cause?

Yeah, it is a major cause.

Then why did they occur during the gold standard period?

There were booms and busts even with the gold standard. They eventually resolve themselves. I'm not sure what causes booms and busts with the gold standard. Probably things like shortages or natural resources or development of new technology.

We saw the Great Recession and saw how the Fed got out of it with its mechanisms. Remember unemployment has been low for a couple of years.

What great recession? 2008? They did stop the whole system from collapsing but I doubt they "fixed" the problem. I suspect all they did was delay the problem which will make it even bigger next time. It's like using pain killers to solve a toothache. It gets rid of the pain but the tooth is still ****ed and getting worse.

Your sources are folks who just get up and say something without the source to back it.

If you look into it, you'll see they have reasons for what they believe. Your sources on the other hand have every incentive to lie assuming what I believe about them is true. And maybe I'm wrong. I don't pretend I know everything.

Go check the Fed financial records and you will see the evidence. If you don't want to read a specific medium that reports it. Just go straight to the Fed yourself.

If the Fed is so open and honest, why has it never been audited? Why does Ron Paul have a problem with it? Is he a conspiracy nut too?