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Old 10-17-2017, 07:20 PM #21
Zaryu Zaryu is online now
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I agree with what I think is the intent of the thread. It takes skills to score knockouts, however, I think the GGG and Ward example it's ridiculous. I see no way Ward punches as hard as GGG.
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Old 10-17-2017, 07:43 PM #22
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Originally Posted by Zaryu View Post
I agree with what I think is the intent of the thread. It takes skills to score knockouts, however, I think the GGG and Ward example it's ridiculous. I see no way Ward punches as hard as GGG.
However, don't you think Gennady Golovkin outclasses Andre Ward in many departments related to 'offensive skills?'. For example:

1) GGG has better power punching technique / mechanics.

2) GGG has the better ability to set up knockout punches.

3) GGG has the superior timing and accuracy to land his
KO punches.

These are all attributes / skills which Golovkin is superior than Andre Ward.

Now, suppose we transfer all of those same skills to Andre Ward whilst Andre Ward still remains the same weight, wouldn't he be punching even harder than GGG, considering he is heavier than GGG?
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Old 10-17-2017, 08:48 PM #23
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Punching power is a big advantage. I don't prescribe to the theory any boxer can KO another if the land the right shot. Big power and a good chin are huge advantages. Larry Holmes vs Tex Cobb. Larry and outstanding boxer could not KO Cobb. Cobb's chin was too good and Larry didn't hit hard enough to knock him out. It was a one sided beating but no KO. I agree that to have a high KO ratio requires skill as well as pure power. Yes offensive fighters don't get the credit they deserve but don't underestimate how important power is.
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Old 10-17-2017, 09:05 PM #24
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Power is a nice cherry on top. Speed on the other hand excels your lvl by improving every facet of your game. Great speed is like boxing with cheats enabled, the greatest boxers were usually speed demons, its a huge advantage. With power there will always be guys who you cant ko because they are too tough or guys that you cant get to (another thing speed helps with) without sacrificing your power unless you want to lose a decision, and its not nearly as important as a solid workrate, defense and in general well rounded elite skills.

Last edited by SplitSecond; 10-17-2017 at 09:12 PM.
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Old 10-17-2017, 09:06 PM #25
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Foreman said it best: "It takes years to learn how to finish an opponent once you have him hurt".
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Old 10-18-2017, 04:13 AM #26
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Originally Posted by TonyGe View Post
Punching power is a big advantage. I don't prescribe to the theory any boxer can KO another if the land the right shot. Big power and a good chin are huge advantages. Larry Holmes vs Tex Cobb. Larry and outstanding boxer could not KO Cobb. Cobb's chin was too good and Larry didn't hit hard enough to knock him out. It was a one sided beating but no KO. I agree that to have a high KO ratio requires skill as well as pure power. Yes offensive fighters don't get the credit they deserve but don't underestimate how important power is.
The thing is, when two boxers are roughly the same size (in weight), then both will have sufficient punching power to KO each other. It often comes down to these following offensive skills that I've already mentioned:

1) Better power punching technique / mechanics.

2) Better power punching accuracy.

3) Better power punching timing.

4) Better ability to set up knockout punches.

5) Better ability to apply pressure and cut the ring off.

It's not a question of raw power that two boxers can generate using their body weight, but the question of if they are throwing punches with the appropriate technique to maximize their power, in addition to being able to land punches properly.

For example, a punch that is thrown with someone's entire body weight moving forward, that lands flush on the opponent's chin whilst they've just moved directly into the punch (AKA Marquez KO 4 Pacquiao) is going to score a knockout, 9/10 times, assuming both boxers are roughly the same size, irrespective of the boxer's punch resistance / chin.

There are exceptions of course. For example, a much lighter boxer like Manny Pacquiao may fail to KO a much heavier opponent in Antonio Margarito, even with those perfect punches. However, I'm referring to boxers who are mainly the same size.

In the case of Larry Holmes vs Tex Cobb, I don't think it was Larry Holme's punching power that was the cause of him not being able to get the KO. To me, it was more down to his lack of 'offensive skills'. Those questions need to be asked:

1) Did Larry Holmes throw his punches with the most appropriate / suitable punching technique so that he can generate maximum force on his punches from his body weight?

2) Did Larry Holmes land those punches with the best technique on the most appropriate spots on Tex Cobb's body, such as the chin?

3) Did Larry Holmes land his punches on Tex Cobb's body with perfect timing, where Tex Cobb was forced to absorb something close to 100% of the punching power from Larry Holmes?


So again, very rarely does it come down to a lack of 'punching power' when a boxer fails to KO an opponent of his own size, but mostly a lack of 'offensive skills'.

Of course, there are boxers who are naturally more powerful with their punches. Meaning, they can not only KO their opponents, but cause more damage with their blows. However, pretty much every boxer o has the potential in their body to generate the punching power required to KO their opponents that are of a similar size (in weight).
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Old 10-18-2017, 04:16 AM #27
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Originally Posted by SplitSecond View Post
Power is a nice cherry on top. Speed on the other hand excels your lvl by improving every facet of your game. Great speed is like boxing with cheats enabled, the greatest boxers were usually speed demons, its a huge advantage. With power there will always be guys who you cant ko because they are too tough or guys that you cant get to (another thing speed helps with) without sacrificing your power unless you want to lose a decision, and its not nearly as important as a solid workrate, defense and in general well rounded elite skills.
What you wrote is true. However, the point of this thread I created was that the knockout artists such as GGG, Sergey Kovalev, Artur Beterbiev and etc. What are the main abilities which allow them to consistently win by knockout? Is it raw punching power alone, special to boxers that are not KO artists? Or is it more down to other offensive skills which I've mentioned?
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Old 10-18-2017, 05:27 AM #28
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I agree with this.

That said, a part of me still wonders whilst sat in front of the box eating crisps and drinking a beer. Whether I could take a Flyweight Paddy Barnes right hand at that very moment. Common sense says he will definitely put me out but then I think, nah, I reckon I could hold a few shots, lol.

Honestly, if Paddy Barnes was my mate he would definitely have KO'd me a handful of times by now after a few pints. I'd have to try and prove myself right.
That's hilarious I've often thought a similar thing when watching certain fighters
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Old 10-18-2017, 08:22 AM #29
Zaryu Zaryu is online now
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Originally Posted by Ganstaz003 View Post
However, don't you think Gennady Golovkin outclasses Andre Ward in many departments related to 'offensive skills?'. For example:

1) GGG has better power punching technique / mechanics.

2) GGG has the better ability to set up knockout punches.

3) GGG has the superior timing and accuracy to land his
KO punches.

These are all attributes / skills which Golovkin is superior than Andre Ward.

Now, suppose we transfer all of those same skills to Andre Ward whilst Andre Ward still remains the same weight, wouldn't he be punching even harder than GGG, considering he is heavier than GGG?
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Maybe, Andre has been able to stop 2 elite fighters in spite of being feather fisted.

Even if we transferred all of GGGs offensive skills to Ward, he wouldn't punch as hard as GGG.
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Old 10-18-2017, 11:27 AM #30
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Originally Posted by Ganstaz003 View Post
What do you mean?
Punchers are born not made, thick bone density gives you heavy hands but of course you need technique to go with that
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