Thug got heart transplant, and went on violent crime spree and died?

[ßringer]

Well the black community usually comes together as whole when one gets killed by the cops, so why not one time against their troubled youth? I also dont see white people making a big deal everytime a white person gets killed by a cop or non white person.

I just don't understand the underlying idea of black people being their own entire community, nor do I see it with white people. Both races come from a ridiculous amount of nationalities and ethnicities with vast differences from one to the next. Therefore, it's kind of silly to expect a population that large and that diverse (white or black) to all rally behind one cause or one opinion just to placate some fringe group who sees them all as being the same.

To your point, the groups of blacks you've seen protest the police in places like Ferguson weren't without warrant. Independent investigations by the DOJ revealed massive racial discrimination and corruption within those police departments and concluded that blacks were, in fact, being targeted for arrest and harassment at a significantly higher rate than their white counterparts.

That's a cause worthy of standing up to. White or black.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...rguson-report/

[ßringer]

You're totally missing the point bringer. 1.7% is TERRIBLE. The media is leading you to believe that the prisons are FULL of non violent drug offenders. Simply not the case.

Except that it is the case.

I literally just linked to you a non-biased source in the Bureau of Prisons that clearly states that drug offenders make up nearly 50% of all prison inmates in the United States.

Now, let's do some fantasy math with those statistics to argue your point, just for fun.

Robbery offenses account for 3.8%.
Burglary, larceny, and property offenses account for 4.4%.
Homicide, aggravated assault, and kidnapping offenses account for 3.0%.

Now, let's take your past post where you implied that all drug offenders were also prone to stealing things (like cars) and assaulting people.

For the sake of argument, let's say that you're right and every person in these stats convicted of a drug offense has also been convicted of one of the three crimes listed above.

That's 11.2% total. Subtracted from the 46.4% of total drug offenders that leaves 35.2% of drug offenders still imprisoned on only a drug charge, and that's assuming that all of those robbery, burglary, larceny, assault, kidnapping, and homicide crimes were committed by drug addicts.

Mathematically, it just doesn't add up.

You can even take the 16.9% of weapons crimes and subtract that from the 35.2% of remaining drug offenders and you still end up with 18.3% of remaining prisoners serving only a drug charge.

That's almost one in five.

Are you seeing the problem yet, or are you still just going to view the issue based on personal experience rather than through the lens of hard statistics?

The 1.7% is representative of the false nature of the media's stance. Furthermore, you can call it an anecdotal fallacy based on my limited experience, but I'm speaking from the side of experience. You just googled something and are regurgitating what you found.

You totally got me here, Rockin'.

You've worked in prisons and I haven't, so therefore I don't know anything about them.

I would argue that my case is stronger than yours because it's backed up by data while yours is backed up by a lot of "I see", "I saw", and "You just don't get it," Not to mention conspiratorial implications regarding "the media."

Which is more likely : That the statistics prove a terrifying trend that nearly everybody has formed a consensus opinion on, or that literally thousands of varying media outlets ranging from print and online publications to investigative television reportings and congressional figures have all put aside their political differences in order to put forth a false narrative that will bring them no profit whatsoever?

Occam's razor.

Cmon man. Yes, respective communities should play a larger role in their children's lives, including daily decision making. There is a correlation between dual income households, children being medicated with psych meds, and your recurring school shootings. Between Americas love of work, drugs, and guns, how are you surprised any of this is happening?

I'm not really surprised by any of it, and I think you make a great point in touching on other lesser-identified factors such as the financial stresses of an overworked and overtly medicated populace burdened by shrinking rewards for their labor.

This country is tanking. HARD. That's something that a hardcore leftist like myself could agree on with even the most diehard of rightwingers. Where we differ is in what we feel are solutions to the problem.

Decriminalizing marijuana possession is literally the least we could do to ease the burden right now, IMO.

[krazyn8tive]

Except that it is the case.

I literally just linked to you a non-biased source in the Bureau of Prisons that clearly states that drug offenders make up nearly 50% of all prison inmates in the United States.

Now, let's do some fantasy math with those statistics to argue your point, just for fun.

Robbery offenses account for 3.8%.
Burglary, larceny, and property offenses account for 4.4%.
Homicide, aggravated assault, and kidnapping offenses account for 3.0%.

Now, let's take your past post where you implied that all drug offenders were also prone to stealing things (like cars) and assaulting people.

For the sake of argument, let's say that you're right and every person in these stats convicted of a drug offense has also been convicted of one of the three crimes listed above.

That's 11.2% total. Subtracted from the 46.4% of total drug offenders that leaves 35.2% of drug offenders still imprisoned on only a drug charge, and that's assuming that all of those robbery, burglary, larceny, assault, kidnapping, and homicide crimes were committed by drug addicts.

Mathematically, it just doesn't add up.

You can even take the 16.9% of weapons crimes and subtract that from the 35.2% of remaining drug offenders and you still end up with 18.3% of remaining prisoners serving only a drug charge.

That's almost one in five.

Are you seeing the problem yet, or are you still just going to view the issue based on personal experience rather than through the lens of hard statistics?



You totally got me here, Rockin'.

You've worked in prisons and I haven't, so therefore I don't know anything about them.

I would argue that my case is stronger than yours because it's backed up by data while yours is backed up by a lot of "I see", "I saw", and "You just don't get it," Not to mention conspiratorial implications regarding "the media."

Which is more likely : That the statistics prove a terrifying trend that nearly everybody has formed a consensus opinion on, or that literally thousands of varying media outlets ranging from print and online publications to investigative television reportings and congressional figures have all put aside their political differences in order to put forth a false narrative that will bring them no profit whatsoever?

Occam's razor.



I'm not really surprised by any of it, and I think you make a great point in touching on other lesser-identified factors such as the financial stresses of an overworked and overtly medicated populace burdened by shrinking rewards for their labor.

This country is tanking. HARD. That's something that a hardcore leftist like myself could agree on with even the most diehard of rightwingers. Where we differ is in what we feel are solutions to the problem.

Decriminalizing marijuana possession is literally the least we could do to ease the burden right now, IMO.

I'll give you this. You gave me a source based on the Federal Bureau of Prisons. I do not work the federal side of things, I work on the state side. Federal prison and state prison are two different en****** entirely. I also work in California, where drug laws extend a far longer leash than almost any other state. I can't speak to guys getting locked up for marijuana charges here because it simply doesn't happen for marijuana alone. Also, the California state prison population is different than let's say Kansas or Iowa. We have more hardened criminals than middle America I would wager. Again, I don't have any statistics on that but just looking around the unit I work, these aren't exactly your cookie cutter, middle American inmates.

Basically, I can't speak on the rest of the country and its marijuana laws as it applies to criminality. California doesn't criminalize the herb as other states do.

I will say, however, I find it very, very hard to believe that guys are serving long sentences for just marijuana possession alone. I cannot wrap my head around that, for whatever reason. It seems like it shouldn't compute that way where one ends up in prison solely for marijuana. There's almost always another reason. But again, that's just from reading prisoner files while bored at work, or as stated before, my personal experience.

[krazyn8tive]

Also bringer...you called me "Rockin'"...that wasn't very nice.

[ßringer]

Also bringer...you called me "Rockin'"...that wasn't very nice.

That was a low blow. I apologize and I have full confidence that you could KTFO the guy who puts the urinal pucks in the men's bathroom at iHOP.

[BigNuts]

Damn....... rip homie

[BKM-]

Rest in PISS. What a shame that this cretin was ever born. That heart transplant could have been for an actual decent human being.

[krazyn8tive]

That was a low blow. I apologize and I have full confidence that you could KTFO the guy who puts the urinal pucks in the men's bathroom at iHOP.

[BigNuts]

That heart transplant could have been for an actual decent human being.

But it wasn't, now was it? Who's fault is that?

[ßringer]

I'll give you this. You gave me a source based on the Federal Bureau of Prisons. I do not work the federal side of things, I work on the state side. Federal prison and state prison are two different en****** entirely. I also work in California, where drug laws extend a far longer leash than almost any other state. I can't speak to guys getting locked up for marijuana charges here because it simply doesn't happen for marijuana alone. Also, the California state prison population is different than let's say Kansas or Iowa. We have more hardened criminals than middle America I would wager. Again, I don't have any statistics on that but just looking around the unit I work, these aren't exactly your cookie cutter, middle American inmates.

Basically, I can't speak on the rest of the country and its marijuana laws as it applies to criminality. California doesn't criminalize the herb as other states do.

I will say, however, I find it very, very hard to believe that guys are serving long sentences for just marijuana possession alone. I cannot wrap my head around that, for whatever reason. It seems like it shouldn't compute that way where one ends up in prison solely for marijuana. There's almost always another reason. But again, that's just from reading prisoner files while bored at work, or as stated before, my personal experience.

Now I get a bit more of what you're saying here. I'll absolutely concede that you working on the State side of things is different. And in California, no less. Gang populations there are ridiculous, so it's only natural that you'd see more hardened criminals in your line of work than most of the general prisons in the middle of bumfuck America. Also, like you said, you guys don't criminalize it like the vast majority of other states do.

From my research, it seems that a lot of the marijuana offenders in the prison system are just victims of a **** system. That's not making excuses for them, it's just reality. Let's say you're a poor dude from a poor community and you get busted with weed. Even if you get a light sentence you still have that mark on your record for life and a lot of people won't hire you as soon as they see you have a felony offense.

So then you get out and move back to the same community you came from and start hanging around the same people you did before because nobody else wants to associate with you because of your record. You're unemployed and stressed for financial reasons because there's no real room for upward mobility. So you blow off stress. Maybe you drink some booze with your buddies to try to get out of the moment for a bit, or maybe you smoke weed again. Then you get drug tested by your parole officer and you pop up positive.

Boom. Back in jail you go for a parole violation for another few years. Rinse and repeat until you're eventually branded unfit for society and given a ridiculously harsh sentence by some cold prick judge for being a repeat offender.

It happens a lot, but thankfully people are starting to catch on now and hopefully something can be done on a federal level.

Vice did a fantastic investigative piece on it for HBO a while back called Fixing The System. You should check it out sometime.

http://www.alluc.ee/l/VICE-S03E00-Sp...V-mp4/8speipke