Lighter weight Boxers can't compete in MMA.

[res]

Everyone knows I've been tough on the UFC, but one place in which i think the assumptions of many MMA guys will prove true is where it comes to lighter weight Boxers.

I'm thinking particularly of guys like Ricardo Mayorga, who WILL be fighting, and Floyd Mayweather, who will never go in but who everyone always brings up in these kinds of discussions.

The speed difference of HW Boxers and HW MMA guys will always make things so that a HW Boxer, properly trained, can be a threat. It's the size of the fighters that makes this possible. It's more difficult to move out of the way of blows at their size.

Personally I think Toney could be a threat with a year of the right kind of training. He wouldn't be training to outgrapple anyone, he would be training to become proficient enough in take down defense, that when the fight got close, he could get a second to plant himself and land to: the ribs, solar plexus etc.
One of the key strategic truths here will be that Boxers in order to hope to be successful in MMA are going to have to depend on body shots, not head shots.


Believe me, one clean shot straight into the ribs in those 4 ounce gloves and these guys are out. Toney's old nemesis Roy Jones once broke a fighters ribs (Virgil Hill) with ONE such punch that was of course cushioned in big red fluffy gloves.

The HW can make it if they dedicate themselves enough, the Welters are going to be eaten for breakfast.

[Chip2006uk]

Do they even have lighter weight classes in the UFC? Their lightweights are like boxings middleweights

[Kakutogi-Gumi]

Do they even have lighter weight classes in the UFC? Their lightweights are like boxings middleweights

WEC handles the 145 and 135 branches.

[res]

Do they even have lighter weight classes in the UFC? Their lightweights are like boxings middleweights

No i said "lighter" weights, not "lightweight" (That would include middle).

[Bacatit]

I disagree I believe the lighter weight fighters have just as much chance as the heavier boxer in mma. If any boxer gets taken down he will have trouble defending subs and getting back to his feet.

This theory would be based more so on the individual rather than the weight class. Not many mma fighters can strike with the same ferocity of a pro boxer.

Floyd the pure boxer would destroy Mayorga in boxing but Din Thomas is likely to get ktfo by Mayorga. That being said pure boxers like Floyd are perfectionist so I promise you if Floyd got in the cage he'd possibly win by submission.

Manny would get taken down and subbed immediately because he's not a perfectionist, Manny would attempt to brawl and fall victim to the double leg quickly.

It all come down to having the will to adapt your skill.

Skill based fighter will be a threat wherever the fight takes place, blood and gutz warriors will fall victim to their own game plan (no game plan).

James Toney has the same odds Floyd does in k.oing somebody in the cage. I don't see a smart fighter like Toney coming into this game blind same with Floyd. JT may just tap Randy out....we call that the element of surprise.

[Danny Gunz]

It seems like the lighter weight classes in boxing are leagues faster then in MMA.

[$Bullsfam$]

I think the same thing applies for every boxer that goes in MMA. In any weight class if you think about trading with them your going to get knocked out embarrassingly unless you use kicks to the max. But the boxer needs to know what he's doing wrestling/BJJ wise too or their just going to get taken down and schooled like that.

I don't think the weight class matters. if Din Thomas trades with mayorga or doesn't play it smart on the feet using kicks, he's going to get knock the hell out I GUARANTEE IT. And if Mayorga doesn't know what he's doing on the ground, he's getting submitted once it hits the ground I GUARANTEE it. Same as if Lesnar stands with James Toney, he'll get knocked out. But again if Toney doesn't know what hes doing on the ground, Lesnar's going to beat the **** out of him after the takedown.

Its been proven time and time again that skills over speed or any other physical ability in MMA MOST of the time. I think style match up and skills are the two biggest parts of a fight. Because if your style is right for that opponent and you have the skill set to expose that, no matter what I'd almost guarantee 99% of the time that guys wins the fight.

[the traveler]

american mma rules favor the wrestler. When you can't strike a downed opponent, then there is really no negative to attempting takedowns. I like the pride rules much better. It's no mysterys why there were a lot more strikers that were successful in pride vs the ufc.

[res]

I think the same thing applies for every boxer that goes in MMA. In any weight class if you think about trading with them your going to get knocked out embarrassingly unless you use kicks to the max. But the boxer needs to know what he's doing wrestling/BJJ wise too or their just going to get taken down and schooled like that.

I don't think the weight class matters. if Din Thomas trades with mayorga or doesn't play it smart on the feet using kicks, he's going to get knock the hell out I GUARANTEE IT. And if Mayorga doesn't know what he's doing on the ground, he's getting submitted once it hits the ground I GUARANTEE it. Same as if Lesnar stands with James Toney, he'll get knocked out. But again if Toney doesn't know what hes doing on the ground, Lesnar's going to beat the **** out of him after the takedown.

Its been proven time and time again that skills over speed or any other physical ability in MMA MOST of the time. I think style match up and skills are the two biggest parts of a fight. Because if your style is right for that opponent and you have the skill set to expose that, no matter what I'd almost guarantee 99% of the time that guys wins the fight.

You mentioned Din Thomas attempting a kick but not a heavyweight opponent of Toney trying this.

I doubt Toney's opponent will try to box him, but consider, for example the prospects of catching the grappler on the way inside (let's say by interception, or side stepping). Lighter weight Boxers throw faster single rights and hooks than heavyweights, but exatly how significant is the difference here? (Remember we are talking single shots not combos). In other words, I don't think that the difference in the speed of a single shot between a HW Boxer and a lighterweight Boxer is in proportion to the difference in speed of a 218 pound man trying to move his entire body to grab you, and a 150 pound man doing the same. If the 218 pound man fails with the shoot and has to recover by getting his whole body out of the way, it's going to be tougher on him getting out of the way of a punch flying at a fraction of a second than the 150 pounder, even if the fraction is a bit larger. The point I'm making is that single punches come in a flash, and the differences in these flashes are not significant compared to the difference in the speed that a 150 pound man can move his entire body, and the speed at which a 218 pound can move his body.


if your going to wrestle you have to do it with your whole body. If your going to Box, you only have to do it with one limb (well your only extending one limb that is).

[phallus]

Everyone knows I've been tough on the UFC, but one place in which i think the assumptions of many MMA guys will prove true is where it comes to lighter weight Boxers.

I'm thinking particularly of guys like Ricardo Mayorga, who WILL be fighting, and Floyd Mayweather, who will never go in but who everyone always brings up in these kinds of discussions.

The speed difference of HW Boxers and HW MMA guys will always make things so that a HW Boxer, properly trained, can be a threat. It's the size of the fighters that makes this possible. It's more difficult to move out of the way of blows at their size.

Personally I think Toney could be a threat with a year of the right kind of training. He wouldn't be training to outgrapple anyone, he would be training to become proficient enough in take down defense, that when the fight got close, he could get a second to plant himself and land to: the ribs, solar plexus etc.
One of the key strategic truths here will be that Boxers in order to hope to be successful in MMA are going to have to depend on body shots, not head shots.

Believe me, one clean shot straight into the ribs in those 4 ounce gloves and these guys are out. Toney's old nemesis Roy Jones once broke a fighters ribs (Virgil Hill) with ONE such punch that was of course cushioned in big red fluffy gloves.

The HW can make it if they dedicate themselves enough, the Welters are going to be eaten for breakfast.

You mentioned Din Thomas attempting a kick but not a heavyweight opponent of Toney trying this.

I doubt Toney's opponent will try to box him, but consider, for example the prospects of catching the grappler on the way inside (let's say by interception, or side stepping). Lighter weight Boxers throw faster single rights and hooks than heavyweights, but exatly how significant is the difference here? (Remember we are talking single shots not combos). In other words, I don't think that the difference in the speed of a single shot between a HW Boxer and a lighterweight Boxer is in proportion to the difference in speed of a 218 pound man trying to move his entire body to grab you, and a 150 pound man doing the same. If the 218 pound man fails with the shoot and has to recover by getting his whole body out of the way, it's going to be tougher on him getting out of the way of a punch flying at a fraction of a second than the 150 pounder, even if the fraction is a bit larger. The point I'm making is that single punches come in a flash, and the differences in these flashes are not significant compared to the difference in the speed that a 150 pound man can move his entire body, and the speed at which a 218 pound can move his body.


if your going to wrestle you have to do it with your whole body. If your going to Box, you only have to do it with one limb (well your only extending one limb that is).

a boxer who can become a sprawl and brawl type fighter in MMA would be very dangerous. james toney would have to spend at least a year with a good trainer working on take down defense but he'd have to learn to fight different, more side stepping shots instead of just shoulder rolling them, to be able to slip out of the way of some takedown attempts and catch the guy open with a quick flush punch, like the thread poster said. i'm a boxing coach but i have one kid who's training MMA, and we do different stuff in the ring and with the pads than i do with the other fighters. when i practice stuff with this kid i have to change my stance also to watch for kicks, takedowns, etc.