Fights where if everything was equal fighter B would've beaten fighter A

[Sheldon312]

Maybe Lomachenko vs Rigondeaux

I was torn on this one. Skill wise, they are both pretty even. Loma is the busier fighter though.

[Marchegiano]

Then why does P4P exist then?

It used to be a singular title given to the man who fans believe could beat the HW champion if size wasn't an issue.

I'll give you has much history into it as you ask for...if you want the whole history I'll write it up, but, usually y'all ain't interested in all of that so I just answered as directly as I could.

[Marchegiano]

Hmm...ok, after read the thread I do think I should explain some things.

Boxing was not invented to be a sport it was invented to be a martial art for war. Boxing as a war training does not see weight as an advantage of disadvantage but rather a point of fact. Big men fight like this, small men like that, both are equal and deadly as **** sort of thing. But them bigger doe is no excuse for a general in any culture let alone a Hellenistic based one.

When boxing starts to become a sport there are loads of things to figure out but most important among them is how to keep boxers alive. The number one killer in boxing, and the reason why all the old champions are on the smaller side, was exhaustion. Smaller fighters would exhaust larger ones then KO them. The larger fighter often died later.

Time limits were brought in to limit deaths due to exhaustion. This also stripped the smaller boxer of his natural gameplan derived from the wartime martial art boxing used to be. He could no longer stay away and tire his opponent. Now he had to get ahead early and stay ahead. This proved to be too big an obstacle for smaller men and they started to be killed off as well. Weight division minimals were needed.

It seems to me, reading this thread, some of y'all believe men have gotten larger over time. This is a misunderstanding. If say Wlad or Tyson were actually bigger men than what used to be produced in 1790 then that friends is evolution proven rather than a theory. It would be big ass news. Since you've not seen anyone with any credibility pointing to sports as proof of evolution I have to wonder why you seem to believe big men exist now but did not when rules allowed them to fight smaller men. They did exist.

it is crazy to me how little pride their is in being the average sized man. Average size is average because it is the best. No one looks at little people or the mentally handicapped and thinks man-o if those guys were around in 1820 those 1820s ****ers would have been ****ed but for some reason we look at giants and forget they needed average folk for them to survive up to this point as much as ******s and midgets did. It's because we, average men, survived the natural world and invented man's world they are able to thrive. Boxing, outside of boxing, doesn't matter; It is true for all of human history.

What would happen to Wlad in 1820? He'd likely get killed if he tried to be a boxer before he made much more than a local name for himself. Either that or Wlad's a magical giant who doesn't need the support of the industrialized world or he's proof of evolution. So, if you don't believe in magic and are still waiting on evolution to be more than a theory then the likely answer is Wlad gets killed unfortunately.


That said, when there are no rules it you who dominates. You, the average sized man, are perfect in every way. There is no environment of earth too harsh for you to thrive. No situation too much for you to handle. The only way you are limited is if you agree to your own limitations. It isn't giants who built this world it is you. It's your generosity that allows them to be more than a burden on society.

I don't know if that answers anything but I felt it needed to be said. Not enough pride in average size when in fact LW-CW are the real killers. The sport has rules to protect everyone else from lw through cw but just look at their skills and recognize at least the surface of their history. It really isn't hard to see; without rules those guys would dominate.






P4P is today whatever you make of it. Different people and publications have different rules. Personally I like the original. It should be a title awarded by fans to whoever is not the HW champion but should be seen as an equal representative to the HW champion because they display such fine skills. You watch the HW for casual entertainment and P4P for high class skills.

That said, lists are an affront and HWs being on those lists are even worse. When Wlad was the clear lineal HW champion Floyd was the p4p champion. Under Fury's reign I reckon it ought to be Loma but will wait on consensus by fans. P4P should not reflect what if weight wasn't an issue as in growing or shrinking characters. You can not shrink Wlad or grow Marciano and expect them to even want to fight like they did in their former sized body. P4P is meant to reflect a champion who could very well be they man if rules did not create weight advantages.

[R-Hand Southpaw]

Maybe Lomachenko vs Rigondeaux

Wat.

I would definitely like an explanation for this one.

[megh50]

Wat.

I would definitely like an explanation for this one.

8lbs weight difference - 3in in height, 10 years in age. It's almost equivalent to Lomachenko moving up to fight Crawford. Loma is 5 7 and 135lbs...Crawford is 5'8 and 147 lbs from a weight perspective...not considering age. Even Loma said Rigo was too small

[Lomadeaux]

Yeah, I totally agree. I watched the fight live and thought it was great. Glovkin almost knocked out Brook in the first round, but Brook did really well to rally later in the round, but Golovkin won it. I can't remember how I scored the other rounds, but I had Golovkin ahead on points at time of stoppage.

I know, insane. GGG literally didn't even drop him and they threw in the towel. Guys are mental.

[Lomadeaux]

8lbs weight difference - 3in in height, 10 years in age. It's almost equivalent to Lomachenko moving up to fight Crawford. Loma is 5 7 and 135lbs...Crawford is 5'8 and 147 lbs from a weight perspective...not considering age. Even Loma said Rigo was too small

8 pounds... LOL...

I wish more people understood boxing on this forum. It's really going down hill.

[Lomadeaux]

Hmm...ok, after read the thread I do think I should explain some things.

Boxing was not invented to be a sport it was invented to be a martial art for war. Boxing as a war training does not see weight as an advantage of disadvantage but rather a point of fact. Big men fight like this, small men like that, both are equal and deadly as **** sort of thing. But them bigger doe is no excuse for a general in any culture let alone a Hellenistic based one.

When boxing starts to become a sport there are loads of things to figure out but most important among them is how to keep boxers alive. The number one killer in boxing, and the reason why all the old champions are on the smaller side, was exhaustion. Smaller fighters would exhaust larger ones then KO them. The larger fighter often died later.

Time limits were brought in to limit deaths due to exhaustion. This also stripped the smaller boxer of his natural gameplan derived from the wartime martial art boxing used to be. He could no longer stay away and tire his opponent. Now he had to get ahead early and stay ahead. This proved to be too big an obstacle for smaller men and they started to be killed off as well. Weight division minimals were needed.

It seems to me, reading this thread, some of y'all believe men have gotten larger over time. This is a misunderstanding. If say Wlad or Tyson were actually bigger men than what used to be produced in 1790 then that friends is evolution proven rather than a theory. It would be big ass news. Since you've not seen anyone with any credibility pointing to sports as proof of evolution I have to wonder why you seem to believe big men exist now but did not when rules allowed them to fight smaller men. They did exist.

it is crazy to me how little pride their is in being the average sized man. Average size is average because it is the best. No one looks at little people or the mentally handicapped and thinks man-o if those guys were around in 1820 those 1820s ****ers would have been ****ed but for some reason we look at giants and forget they needed average folk for them to survive up to this point as much as ******s and midgets did. It's because we, average men, survived the natural world and invented man's world they are able to thrive. Boxing, outside of boxing, doesn't matter; It is true for all of human history.

What would happen to Wlad in 1820? He'd likely get killed if he tried to be a boxer before he made much more than a local name for himself. Either that or Wlad's a magical giant who doesn't need the support of the industrialized world or he's proof of evolution. So, if you don't believe in magic and are still waiting on evolution to be more than a theory then the likely answer is Wlad gets killed unfortunately.


That said, when there are no rules it you who dominates. You, the average sized man, are perfect in every way. There is no environment of earth too harsh for you to thrive. No situation too much for you to handle. The only way you are limited is if you agree to your own limitations. It isn't giants who built this world it is you. It's your generosity that allows them to be more than a burden on society.

I don't know if that answers anything but I felt it needed to be said. Not enough pride in average size when in fact LW-CW are the real killers. The sport has rules to protect everyone else from lw through cw but just look at their skills and recognize at least the surface of their history. It really isn't hard to see; without rules those guys would dominate.






P4P is today whatever you make of it. Different people and publications have different rules. Personally I like the original. It should be a title awarded by fans to whoever is not the HW champion but should be seen as an equal representative to the HW champion because they display such fine skills. You watch the HW for casual entertainment and P4P for high class skills.

That said, lists are an affront and HWs being on those lists are even worse. When Wlad was the clear lineal HW champion Floyd was the p4p champion. Under Fury's reign I reckon it ought to be Loma but will wait on consensus by fans. P4P should not reflect what if weight wasn't an issue as in growing or shrinking characters. You can not shrink Wlad or grow Marciano and expect them to even want to fight like they did in their former sized body. P4P is meant to reflect a champion who could very well be they man if rules did not create weight advantages.

Good post.

In regards to P4P. I'm not sure why people get so confused by it. It's literally the simplest thing ever to contemplate.

Guy A is 220 pounds and is heavyweight champion
Guy B is 147 pounds and is welterweight champion

MYTHICALLY all of a sudden they're the exact same weight... Who wins the fight? That's who's P4P better.

Not sure why it gets so confusing.

[eco1]

Maidana vs the gay one. With the gloves that were approved.

[KillaMane26]

If Gamboa was bigger and kept speed he wuda beat TC...Now yall gat me wondering about Loma vs Rigo..Rigo made Loma miss alot of punchea that night