Spence “I’ll Never Betray Al, sets us up for retirement..” explains PBC Model

[daggum]

sorry guy...but age IS RELEVANT...always

yes we don't know what tanks future holds...if hes shot by 30 hes shot by 30....then hes juan manuel lopez or whoever....that's on him and that's his destiny

but age does matter

and yes...im saying that spence and Crawford and many others haven't achieved what tank has already at the tender age of 24

again....did spence or bud sell out in their hometown at 24? were they headlining and making the money that davis is making now at 24? have they provided main support to a ppv that did over 2 mil buys at 24? the answer is NO

and you can apply those questions to any top 20 p4p not named canelo right now and the answer would still be no.....you could apply them to Floyd and the answer would still be NO...golovkin? no.....whomever? no

tanks handlers are doing him just fine and I don't think hes upset.....just as much as you say he could be shot by 30 I could say he could be p4p #1 by 30 and fight till hes 35...neither of us know

what I do know is that for a 24 year old hes ahead of the curve by a good margin with plenty of room to grow...your idol golovkin didn't get his first big fight till he was like 34 lol

and tank hasnt achieved anywhere close to what they have achieved. you can map out a fantasy career for tank all you want but reality is reality. those guys also turned pro at 22 to 25 while tank turned pro at 18. you arent comparing like things. how about just focusing on who is good now? who is doing good things now? its not tank

[daggum]

so tank and gamboa are top 5 at 135. who else? loma i guess although he got a gift against pedraza. so pedraza should also be top 5.

my top 5 at 135:

1. tank
2. gamboa
3. pedraza
4. loma
5. the next bum tank chooses to fight there

[champion4ever]

Spence backs Al Haymon one hundred thousand percent. He is staunchly loyal to Al Haymon as is the rest of the members of Al's stable.

[Scipio2009]

I agree with almost everything you say. BUT ... just because Vanes went to DK (stupid move) doesn't mean that there isn't inactivity under the PBC umbrella - there is!

Just because TR might be a closed shop (less convinced about this as Arum will do do deals with PBC and GBP and Warren and Hearn) doesn't mean that PBC isn't (almost) a closed shop,

My issue is we don't get to see the best possible fights WHEN we should get to see them. There has always been some truth to this ... but it's getting worse.

Porter - Spence isn't a bad fight at all, a good one in fact but Bud - Spence is twice the fight and it's being delayed too long because Haymon is keeping Spence in house - and you have to ask yourself - why is that? He is not sure Spence wins and if he loses then his whole welterweight money making op dies a death.

If you want to just fight, there are beyond enough opportunities to fight for folks who want to; before Ugas finally got his title shot against Porter, the man fought 5 times in less than 15 months if my memory serves me right; no idea what he got paid, but activity wasn't a bar.

The issue is in making certain fights, especially with everyone knowing what's what and being free to decide for themselves.

Leo Santa Cruz is the man at 126, and logic will tell you that a fight with Gary Russell Jr makes sense. Leo doesn't want to take that fight, and Haymon isn't going to push him, so Russell Jr (if Santa Cruz is the fight he's targeting) is left to wait on Leo to make a move.

Leo seemed to decide that the fight he wanted was Davis at 130lbs, but at 130lbs, Davis is top dog, leaving Leo to wait on Davis while Russell Jr waits on him.

With the Tevin Farmer fight seemingly not happening now, Davis seems set to square off with Yuriorkis Gamboa in his next fight, at 135lbs.

With Davis busy, Leo has to make a choice for what's next, and it seems like he's down to Russell Jr in a 126lb unification or a tickover at 130 against a no name (likely for half the money that he'd get to fight Russell Jr).

It's a messy process, but the fighters get to control their own business, and the actual negotiations are straightforward when both fighters decide that they want to fight.

Errol Spence Jr is fighting and targeting the folks that he's targeting (Mikey, Danny, Porter, Pacquiao, Thurman, Ugas) because the group of fighters he's looking at are the top fighters at the weight, and the negotiations to make all of those fights have and can be done without any issues.

The Bud Crawford fight isn't happening, in a nutshell, because Bob Arum thinks that the fighter he's failed with twice on PPV (with no plans to try again anytime soon) is somehow worth 50% of the pot, and his company/broadcaster 50% of the event (basically no decision gets done without his agreement) simply because he's Bob Arum.

Try to defend that if you want, but that doesn't make any sense.

[Boxing_1013]

Vanes came out and complained strongly about his inactivity and then got bashed on here by the PBC fans. Comes to something when even promoters have fanbois who lack objectivity.

Yes, PBC is "looking after" fighter's money interests but the downside is there is a closed shop so we don't get Bud/Spence until after there's slippage and a lot of other fighters are only fighting once a year in their primes. Garcia-Garcia should be easy to make and would be compelling. They don't have to fight immediately but the could at least announce fights ahead of time.

Yes I agree with you about the lackluster matchups from PBC...that is my main complaint with them, and it is a big one.

[SteveM]

If you want to just fight, there are beyond enough opportunities to fight for folks who want to; before Ugas finally got his title shot against Porter, the man fought 5 times in less than 15 months if my memory serves me right; no idea what he got paid, but activity wasn't a bar.

The issue is in making certain fights, especially with everyone knowing what's what and being free to decide for themselves.

Leo Santa Cruz is the man at 126, and logic will tell you that a fight with Gary Russell Jr makes sense. Leo doesn't want to take that fight, and Haymon isn't going to push him, so Russell Jr (if Santa Cruz is the fight he's targeting) is left to wait on Leo to make a move.

Leo seemed to decide that the fight he wanted was Davis at 130lbs, but at 130lbs, Davis is top dog, leaving Leo to wait on Davis while Russell Jr waits on him.

With the Tevin Farmer fight seemingly not happening now, Davis seems set to square off with Yuriorkis Gamboa in his next fight, at 135lbs.

With Davis busy, Leo has to make a choice for what's next, and it seems like he's down to Russell Jr in a 126lb unification or a tickover at 130 against a no name (likely for half the money that he'd get to fight Russell Jr).

It's a messy process, but the fighters get to control their own business, and the actual negotiations are straightforward when both fighters decide that they want to fight.

Errol Spence Jr is fighting and targeting the folks that he's targeting (Mikey, Danny, Porter, Pacquiao, Thurman, Ugas) because the group of fighters he's looking at are the top fighters at the weight, and the negotiations to make all of those fights have and can be done without any issues.

The Bud Crawford fight isn't happening, in a nutshell, because Bob Arum thinks that the fighter he's failed with twice on PPV (with no plans to try again anytime soon) is somehow worth 50% of the pot, and his company/broadcaster 50% of the event (basically no decision gets done without his agreement) simply because he's Bob Arum.

Try to defend that if you want, but that doesn't make any sense.

Good reply, thanks.

I think Ugas was so active because he was working himself from prospect to contender. He shows his props against Porer an dnow he looks to be inactive too.
AS a fan this is what I don't like. All the PBC welterweights could be fighting each other to see who is top dog but Haymon is advising them to fight less. I suppose this is good for the boxers, good earnings instead of stratospheric earnings but it is not good for fans.

If Spence and Haymon feel he is a bigger attraction than Crawford, and he is right now, then stick out an offer at 60-40 or 65-35 and get a reaction. At least then we get to see where the bottleneck is.

[Scipio2009]

Good reply, thanks.

I think Ugas was so active because he was working himself from prospect to contender. He shows his props against Porer an dnow he looks to be inactive too.
AS a fan this is what I don't like. All the PBC welterweights could be fighting each other to see who is top dog but Haymon is advising them to fight less. I suppose this is good for the boxers, good earnings instead of stratospheric earnings but it is not good for fans.

If Spence and Haymon feel he is a bigger attraction than Crawford, and he is right now, then stick out an offer at 60-40 or 65-35 and get a reaction. At least then we get to see where the bottleneck is.

I don't think that Haymon is advising anyone to fight less; I just think that, for example, at 147, you were basically down to a Final Four with Thurman, Spence, Pacquiao, and Porter, Pacquiao's now in position to call his shot, and you've basically got about 8 guys, all in position for massive fights depending on how things move, and everyone knows it.

If Errol Spence Jr beats Shawn Porter in a great fight, and the PPV event tracks towards 400k-500k, we likely see Spence-Pacquiao moved towards early 2020. With "the Finals" set, everyone else can set their own paths; Danny Garcia will get a fight out of the way for his rightful shot at the winner, Keith Thurman is now back on the mend, but we'll likely fsee him take a couple tuneups to check everything out before going after a guy like Ugas to stake his shot, guys like Jamal James will look for a shot against a guy like Andre Berto to get their names into the mix, etc.

It's all about timing, tbh.

Bob Arum is the same old curmudgeon he's been since I started following boxing, and that's not going to change.

Bob Arum has already said, damn the asset that he has, the only deal that he's even interested in talking about is a 50/50 split of the pot for the fighters with he and ESPN getting a 50% say on everything involving the event (basically making it that nothing happens without Arum saying yes).

There's no value in making any offer of **** after that, so why bother?

[SteveM]

I don't think that Haymon is advising anyone to fight less; I just think that, for example, at 147, you were basically down to a Final Four with Thurman, Spence, Pacquiao, and Porter, Pacquiao's now in position to call his shot, and you've basically got about 8 guys, all in position for massive fights depending on how things move, and everyone knows it.

If Errol Spence Jr beats Shawn Porter in a great fight, and the PPV event tracks towards 400k-500k, we likely see Spence-Pacquiao moved towards early 2020. With "the Finals" set, everyone else can set their own paths; Danny Garcia will get a fight out of the way for his rightful shot at the winner, Keith Thurman is now back on the mend, but we'll likely fsee him take a couple tuneups to check everything out before going after a guy like Ugas to stake his shot, guys like Jamal James will look for a shot against a guy like Andre Berto to get their names into the mix, etc.

It's all about timing, tbh.

Bob Arum is the same old curmudgeon he's been since I started following boxing, and that's not going to change.

Bob Arum has already said, damn the asset that he has, the only deal that he's even interested in talking about is a 50/50 split of the pot for the fighters with he and ESPN getting a 50% say on everything involving the event (basically making it that nothing happens without Arum saying yes).

There's no value in making any offer of **** after that, so why bother?

'nother good post, you're on a roll :-)

I disagree about not being worth it. You start pressuring Arum and Crawford and maybe even get Crawford to start questioning Arum because he might be getting heat from team Spence when he is willing to fight.

If Spence beats Porter and he gets to fight and beat Pac (I somehow don't see that fight getting made as Pac is going to want astronomical pay for getting k.t.f.o) ... then Spence will be the anointed one.

A Bud - Spence fight would be possibly the biggest fight since Floyd-McGregor. 35/40% of that pot is going to be worth much more than 50/60% of any other pot.

[Scipio2009]

'nother good post, you're on a roll :-)

I disagree about not being worth it. You start pressuring Arum and Crawford and maybe even get Crawford to start questioning Arum because he might be getting heat from team Spence when he is willing to fight.

If Spence beats Porter and he gets to fight and beat Pac (I somehow don't see that fight getting made as Pac is going to want astronomical pay for getting k.t.f.o) ... then Spence will be the anointed one.

A Bud - Spence fight would be possibly the biggest fight since Floyd-McGregor. 35/40% of that pot is going to be worth much more than 50/60% of any other pot.

Spence just beat Porter in a great fight (how well the event does will be known in a couple weeks, but rocking 16500+ at Staples Center is a nice data point), is apparently set to fight Danny Garcia on FOX PPV in Jan/Feb (which likely puts Pacquiao's next fight on Showtime PPV), and if he gets through that in style, he'll likely have the Pacquiao PPV summer of 2020.

All the while, Crawford is likely doing jack **** to build his piece of the fight (Mean Machine in December, a likely BS fight early in 2020, and then who knows what for the summer).

Folks need to see the forest

[SteveM]

Spence just beat Porter in a great fight (how well the event does will be known in a couple weeks, but rocking 16500+ at Staples Center is a nice data point), is apparently set to fight Danny Garcia on FOX PPV in Jan/Feb (which likely puts Pacquiao's next fight on Showtime PPV), and if he gets through that in style, he'll likely have the Pacquiao PPV summer of 2020.

All the while, Crawford is likely doing jack **** to build his piece of the fight (Mean Machine in December, a likely BS fight early in 2020, and then who knows what for the summer).

Folks need to see the forest

All good. I couldn't stay up any longer to watch the fight (5am in the UK) My cable was out so I was watching the undercard on my phone and it did my eyes in.

I'll catch it this evening on YT hopefully, sounds like a cracking fight.

I still don't see Pac fighting either Porter or Spence - these guys are too big. Pac- Danny would be a good fight and a fairer size matchup.

I hear what you are saying about Bud. He shouldn't have re-signed with T.R but who know what Arum promised him before he signed the dotted line. Now he's on that side of the tracks I don't know what he can do. Maybe fight Prograis if he moves up or Taylor if he wins. Would be good skill matchups and keep his skillset sharp.