Forum Navigation
Go Back   Boxing Forum > Boxing Forums > Boxing History

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-08-2020, 08:35 PM #41
HOUDINI563 HOUDINI563 is online now
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Northeast USA
Posts: 2,579
Quoted: 1522 Post(s)
Rep Power: 11
HOUDINI563 has a reputation beyond reputeHOUDINI563 has a reputation beyond reputeHOUDINI563 has a reputation beyond reputeHOUDINI563 has a reputation beyond reputeHOUDINI563 has a reputation beyond reputeHOUDINI563 has a reputation beyond reputeHOUDINI563 has a reputation beyond reputeHOUDINI563 has a reputation beyond reputeHOUDINI563 has a reputation beyond reputeHOUDINI563 has a reputation beyond reputeHOUDINI563 has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 23,699.08
Bank: 1,173.04
Total Points: 24,872.12
Default

Fleischer had he lived into the mid to late 70’s may have revised his rankings. He was not inflexible in his beliefs. Back when he wrote “50 years at ringside” in the late 50’s he strongly implied that Dempsey would stop Louis early. Fast forward to the late 60’s and his opinion had changed now insisting that Louis would stop Dempsey in six rounds.

Ali by the time of Nats death was considered over the hill with his best days behind him. He was beaten soundly by Frazier and Norton. Perfectly reasonable to not include him in a top ten ATG listing. This changed in 1974 and his top placement sealed in 1975.
HOUDINI563 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2020, 08:46 PM #42
Ben Bolt Ben Bolt is offline
Interim Champion
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 959
Quoted: 299 Post(s)
Rep Power: 14
Ben Bolt has a reputation beyond reputeBen Bolt has a reputation beyond reputeBen Bolt has a reputation beyond reputeBen Bolt has a reputation beyond reputeBen Bolt has a reputation beyond reputeBen Bolt has a reputation beyond reputeBen Bolt has a reputation beyond reputeBen Bolt has a reputation beyond reputeBen Bolt has a reputation beyond reputeBen Bolt has a reputation beyond reputeBen Bolt has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 15,211.33
Bank: 1,460.90
Total Points: 16,672.23
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by QueensburyRules View Post
- -They already do.
Image View Removed. Please Click Here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HOUDINI563 View Post
Ali by the time of Nats death was considered over the hill with his best days behind him. He was beaten soundly by Frazier and Norton. Perfectly reasonable to not include him in a top ten ATG listing.
Well, what we saw of Ali in 1964-67, I think he had made a statement already then.
Ben Bolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2020, 09:26 PM #43
HOUDINI563 HOUDINI563 is online now
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Northeast USA
Posts: 2,579
Quoted: 1522 Post(s)
Rep Power: 11
HOUDINI563 has a reputation beyond reputeHOUDINI563 has a reputation beyond reputeHOUDINI563 has a reputation beyond reputeHOUDINI563 has a reputation beyond reputeHOUDINI563 has a reputation beyond reputeHOUDINI563 has a reputation beyond reputeHOUDINI563 has a reputation beyond reputeHOUDINI563 has a reputation beyond reputeHOUDINI563 has a reputation beyond reputeHOUDINI563 has a reputation beyond reputeHOUDINI563 has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 23,699.08
Bank: 1,173.04
Total Points: 24,872.12
Default

No. He had yet to check important boxes. He closed his career with the victories and more importantly the type victories required to place him alongside those that came before him.
HOUDINI563 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2020, 05:31 AM #44
QueensburyRules QueensburyRules is online now
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 7,434
Quoted: 3120 Post(s)
Rep Power: 17
QueensburyRules has a reputation beyond reputeQueensburyRules has a reputation beyond reputeQueensburyRules has a reputation beyond reputeQueensburyRules has a reputation beyond reputeQueensburyRules has a reputation beyond reputeQueensburyRules has a reputation beyond reputeQueensburyRules has a reputation beyond reputeQueensburyRules has a reputation beyond reputeQueensburyRules has a reputation beyond reputeQueensburyRules has a reputation beyond reputeQueensburyRules has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 139,961.38
Bank: 1,819.40
Total Points: 141,780.78
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HOUDINI563 View Post
No. He had yet to check important boxes. He closed his career with the victories and more importantly the type victories required to place him alongside those that came before him.
- -Ali reunited the titles he helped to split in the 60s.

Why they let noobs post in the history section?
QueensburyRules is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2020, 08:37 AM #45
Willie Pep 229 Willie Pep 229 is offline
Interim Champion
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 576
Quoted: 394 Post(s)
Rep Power: 2
Willie Pep 229 has much to be proud ofWillie Pep 229 has much to be proud ofWillie Pep 229 has much to be proud ofWillie Pep 229 has much to be proud ofWillie Pep 229 has much to be proud ofWillie Pep 229 has much to be proud ofWillie Pep 229 has much to be proud ofWillie Pep 229 has much to be proud of
Points: 20,018.13
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 20,018.13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HOUDINI563 View Post
Fleischer had he lived into the mid to late 70’s may have revised his rankings. He was not inflexible in his beliefs. Back when he wrote “50 years at ringside” in the late 50’s he strongly implied that Dempsey would stop Louis early. Fast forward to the late 60’s and his opinion had changed now insisting that Louis would stop Dempsey in six rounds.

Ali by the time of Nats death was considered over the hill with his best days behind him. He was beaten soundly by Frazier and Norton. Perfectly reasonable to not include him in a top ten ATG listing. This changed in 1974 and his top placement sealed in 1975.

Good point regarding the timing the list was complied. I would have to agree, any list created after '71 and before Zaire really shouldn't have Ali in the top ten.
Willie Pep 229 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2020, 04:39 PM #46
Ben Bolt Ben Bolt is offline
Interim Champion
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 959
Quoted: 299 Post(s)
Rep Power: 14
Ben Bolt has a reputation beyond reputeBen Bolt has a reputation beyond reputeBen Bolt has a reputation beyond reputeBen Bolt has a reputation beyond reputeBen Bolt has a reputation beyond reputeBen Bolt has a reputation beyond reputeBen Bolt has a reputation beyond reputeBen Bolt has a reputation beyond reputeBen Bolt has a reputation beyond reputeBen Bolt has a reputation beyond reputeBen Bolt has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 15,211.33
Bank: 1,460.90
Total Points: 16,672.23
Default

Fleisher was a man of his time, and with old values.
He didn’t like Ali, because Ali turning to islam and criticizing the Vietnam war.

But it honors Fleisher, that he was capable to see the difference between his own, personal views and what sportsmanship really is.

Fleisher’s The Ring kept recognize Ali as the true and only heavyweight World champion, until the days before the Joe Frazier–Jimmy Ellis fight, when Ali himself gave up any claim to the title.
Ben Bolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2020, 09:20 PM #47
QueensburyRules QueensburyRules is online now
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 7,434
Quoted: 3120 Post(s)
Rep Power: 17
QueensburyRules has a reputation beyond reputeQueensburyRules has a reputation beyond reputeQueensburyRules has a reputation beyond reputeQueensburyRules has a reputation beyond reputeQueensburyRules has a reputation beyond reputeQueensburyRules has a reputation beyond reputeQueensburyRules has a reputation beyond reputeQueensburyRules has a reputation beyond reputeQueensburyRules has a reputation beyond reputeQueensburyRules has a reputation beyond reputeQueensburyRules has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 139,961.38
Bank: 1,819.40
Total Points: 141,780.78
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Bolt View Post
Fleisher was a man of his time, and with old values.
He didn’t like Ali, because Ali turning to islam and criticizing the Vietnam war.

But it honors Fleisher, that he was capable to see the difference between his own, personal views and what sportsmanship really is.

Fleisher’s The Ring kept recognize Ali as the true and only heavyweight World champion, until the days before the Joe Frazier–Jimmy Ellis fight, when Ali himself gave up any claim to the title.
- -Doubt Nat ever disliked Ali, it's just that his all time list was completely inclusive of retired fighters, not an active top ten.
QueensburyRules is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share This With Friends

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

 

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:01 PM.