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Old 02-05-2019, 10:19 AM #21
kafkod kafkod is offline
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Originally Posted by SuperHanz View Post
Wilder knocks Joshua out.
He would have a punchers chance, but the chances of him remaining concious for long enough to land a big punch on AJ are remote. You can't get outboxed by AJ for more than a couple of rounds without getting badly hurt, and AJ is a far better boxer than Wilder.
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Old 02-05-2019, 10:33 AM #22
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Originally Posted by Ray* View Post
I think they are struggling to come to a deal, and this gives them enough time to do so. We all know the WBC are easy to control so not shock here lol.
Postponing purse bids is pretty common. And Espinoza mentioned on Thursday that he expects the deal to be completed within the next 7-10 days.
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Old 02-05-2019, 10:43 AM #23
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Originally Posted by earl-hickey View Post
Wilder is not the second best heavyweight in the world

Fury is probably number one, but Wilder doesn't go UP in the rankings for getting schooled
nobody was schooled in that fight
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Old 02-05-2019, 10:48 AM #24
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Old 02-05-2019, 11:18 AM #25
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Originally Posted by kafkod View Post
True, but at least most of the articles are written by actual journalists here.
I'm not asking to be flippant I am honestly curious.

How actual are we talking? These dudes got credentials in boxing, journalism, or both or did they just complete a creative writing course and found an outlet in boxing?

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Originally Posted by kafkod View Post
He would have a punchers chance, but the chances of him remaining concious for long enough to land a big punch on AJ are remote. You can't get outboxed by AJ for more than a couple of rounds without getting badly hurt, and AJ is a far better boxer than Wilder.
This is equally an honest question. It's clear I lean Wilder and you lean Fury, no reason for us to debate that, but it seems like once Wilder's kept up with Fury's angles and punch count the idea that Wilder can't keep up with Joshua's seems silly to me.

I would agree with damn near everything you said except the conclusion. Yes, Josh is much more boxer than Wilder. Fury is much more boxer than either but Wilder kept up with Fury in a way i just can't see Josh keeping up with.

Tyson uses posture and position more than anyone else in the division, more than anything else in his tool set, and more than we've seen from recent champions in the past 10-15 years or so.

He beat Wlad by leaning forward, showing him a funny face, then getting off the track and popping Wlad here and there. Easy work for him.

He tried to do the same thing with Wilder and got put on the canvas. You can tell me "But him was fat doe" "but him laid off doe" and so on all you like. It wasn't speed nor endurance that beat Wlad. It was Wlad's inability to fight off track. It isn't speed or endurance that kept Wilder in that fight it was his ability to follow Tyson off track.

That's why Tyson and Wilder pivot so much when they shadow box. It's a message to the whole division. Watch the division's angles and pivots, the whole division is kind of **** at it aren't they? If you got a guy over 200 pounds and over six and half feet tall who can pivot and move like a CW you have a HW who is a damn terror for all those who can't and all those who can't are everyone except Wilder and Fury. Including Povetkin who was always a ****ty track fighter.

Joshua is on tracks too. That's why when he tried to box Wlad they were pretty damn even. He got floored because he's a damn track fighter and all they do is check the gap, Wlad's made a career of gap checking....what is it you all think folks meant when they said "uses his size"? He's checking the gap of course. Joshua picked himself up and stopped trying to box Wlad for his greatest victory to date.


So when comparing Wilder to Joshua I don't see how Joshua keeps Wilder off of him. Joshua's a track fighter who will go in using the most predictable path and hoping his combination carry him. That **** won't work against Fury. You know damn well that is a joke. Fat Fury, in shape Fury, does not matter. Hell Tyson knows it too that's why he wanted in the mix now instead of when he loses the fat.

You know Tyson works circles around the lad easily, and you know Wilder was in that fight all night long regardless of if he was losing, it was not easy for Tyson to shake him and not nearly as easy as it was for Big Ty to Wlad who damn near KO'd Joshua.

Why on earth would you assume Wilder would struggle with Joshua's boxing skill set when his particular boxing skill set does not have even a theoretical answer for Wilder's posture and position game.

Elaborate, how exactly does Joshua outbox Wilder? Going to walk right up to him and throw some combinations while taking such a bad posture he looks more like a WWE **** than a champion earning the title Flex given to him years ago?

Stiff is stiff and that's why he's scared of both those men. He has a snowball's chance in hell. It's crazy to me that Fury fans can see that in relation to Fury but not Wilder. Wilder does not need to be as good at posture as Fury is to beat someone like Joshua because Joshua is horrible at it and combos are not an answer for it, posture is an answer for combos.

I'd be much more of a Joshua fan if he wasn't so damn bad at posture and position. You know damn well he looks more like a muscle beach fella than a champion when he throw punches. That's what would get him ****ed up by either and why he is scared of both. It's also what give Fury all the confidence he has. You can't KO what you can't hit right? With Fury doing it that equate to movement. With Wilder that equates to hurting you more than you did him in every exchange. Joshua plays right into it.

If Josh picks up his pivot game, gets off track sometimes, and fixes his posture then I might be nervous about all the **** I have talked but until then....what the **** are you looking at? Wilder's not on tracks and Joshua's not going to be the one in leverage position because of that.
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Old 02-05-2019, 01:49 PM #26
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Originally Posted by Marchegiano View Post
I'm not asking to be flippant I am honestly curious.

How actual are we talking? These dudes got credentials in boxing, journalism, or both or did they just complete a creative writing course and found an outlet in boxing?



This is equally an honest question. It's clear I lean Wilder and you lean Fury, no reason for us to debate that, but it seems like once Wilder's kept up with Fury's angles and punch count the idea that Wilder can't keep up with Joshua's seems silly to me.

I would agree with damn near everything you said except the conclusion. Yes, Josh is much more boxer than Wilder. Fury is much more boxer than either but Wilder kept up with Fury in a way i just can't see Josh keeping up with.

Tyson uses posture and position more than anyone else in the division, more than anything else in his tool set, and more than we've seen from recent champions in the past 10-15 years or so.

He beat Wlad by leaning forward, showing him a funny face, then getting off the track and popping Wlad here and there. Easy work for him.

He tried to do the same thing with Wilder and got put on the canvas. You can tell me "But him was fat doe" "but him laid off doe" and so on all you like. It wasn't speed nor endurance that beat Wlad. It was Wlad's inability to fight off track. It isn't speed or endurance that kept Wilder in that fight it was his ability to follow Tyson off track.

That's why Tyson and Wilder pivot so much when they shadow box. It's a message to the whole division. Watch the division's angles and pivots, the whole division is kind of **** at it aren't they? If you got a guy over 200 pounds and over six and half feet tall who can pivot and move like a CW you have a HW who is a damn terror for all those who can't and all those who can't are everyone except Wilder and Fury. Including Povetkin who was always a ****ty track fighter.

Joshua is on tracks too. That's why when he tried to box Wlad they were pretty damn even. He got floored because he's a damn track fighter and all they do is check the gap, Wlad's made a career of gap checking....what is it you all think folks meant when they said "uses his size"? He's checking the gap of course. Joshua picked himself up and stopped trying to box Wlad for his greatest victory to date.


So when comparing Wilder to Joshua I don't see how Joshua keeps Wilder off of him. Joshua's a track fighter who will go in using the most predictable path and hoping his combination carry him. That **** won't work against Fury. You know damn well that is a joke. Fat Fury, in shape Fury, does not matter. Hell Tyson knows it too that's why he wanted in the mix now instead of when he loses the fat.

You know Tyson works circles around the lad easily, and you know Wilder was in that fight all night long regardless of if he was losing, it was not easy for Tyson to shake him and not nearly as easy as it was for Big Ty to Wlad who damn near KO'd Joshua.

Why on earth would you assume Wilder would struggle with Joshua's boxing skill set when his particular boxing skill set does not have even a theoretical answer for Wilder's posture and position game.

Elaborate, how exactly does Joshua outbox Wilder? Going to walk right up to him and throw some combinations while taking such a bad posture he looks more like a WWE **** than a champion earning the title Flex given to him years ago?

Stiff is stiff and that's why he's scared of both those men. He has a snowball's chance in hell. It's crazy to me that Fury fans can see that in relation to Fury but not Wilder. Wilder does not need to be as good at posture as Fury is to beat someone like Joshua because Joshua is horrible at it and combos are not an answer for it, posture is an answer for combos.

I'd be much more of a Joshua fan if he wasn't so damn bad at posture and position. You know damn well he looks more like a muscle beach fella than a champion when he throw punches. That's what would get him ****ed up by either and why he is scared of both. It's also what give Fury all the confidence he has. You can't KO what you can't hit right? With Fury doing it that equate to movement. With Wilder that equates to hurting you more than you did him in every exchange. Joshua plays right into it.

If Josh picks up his pivot game, gets off track sometimes, and fixes his posture then I might be nervous about all the **** I have talked but until then....what the **** are you looking at? Wilder's not on tracks and Joshua's not going to be the one in leverage position because of that.
Some of the people who run this site are journalists who write articles themselves, sometimes using pen names.

Other articles are taken from various news outlets and publications around the world, and are published here under the user name of the person who reproduced them, rather than the original writer.

From what I gathered reading a twitter discussion between boxing journalists, in which Boxingscene was mentioned, there doesn't seem to be any legal requirement for an internet forum - which is what this site is - or a twitter account, to link to articles they reproduce or even credit the original author.

There are also contributions from people who work in the boxing industry, eg, Frank Warren and Breadman Edwards. Peter Fury used to be a regular contributor at one time.


Re your fight assessments, the Fury who fought Wilder was not the same as the Fury who fought Wlad. Look at the way Fury used his feet in the Wlad fight .. constantly up on his toes, dancing in and out of range like a gangly, ungainly version of a young Ali.

And was that ungainliness, combined with Fury's constant switching from orthodox to southpaw and back, which bamboozled Wlad and prevented him getting his punches off.

Fury did move around against Wilder, but not nearly as much. Most of the time he was right in front of him using head and upper body movement to roll and slip punches.

And the switching, unfortunately, hasn't really been part of Tyson's game since his comeback. He still does it occasionally, but only while out of range and showboating.

Before his lay-off he was switching constantly, while in the pocket, exchanging punches. I really hope he is working on bringing it back fully with Ben, because it's a unique ability that nobody else in the division has.

Pre lay off Fury would have beaten Wilder easily, and maybe stopped him, in my opinion. The Fury who fought Wilder would have lost to AJ. Also imo, of course.

You are underestimating AJ's boxing skill, and overestimating Wilder's. Wilder has problems with tall boxers who stand their ground and use their jabs.

Molina gave him plenty of problems, and look how easily AJ disposed of him. Washington also won most of the rounds he went with Wilder by standing his ground, or coming forward, behind the jab. He only got KO'd when he made the mistake of going to the ropes and lowering his hands, hoping to draw leads from Wilder and counter them, which he didn't have the skill or reaction speed to pull off.

Duhaupus, who in many ways fights like a slower, less powerful version of AJ, was able to land plenty of shots and damaged both Wilder's eyes before Deontay's harder punches took their toll on him.

Like I said, you can't afford to start slowly, lose rounds and take punches against AJ because he starts fast, has real KO power, and is looking to end fights early, if he gets a chance.

I think Wilder would give him chances early and it would be goodnight Deontay, probably within the first 2 or 3 rounds.
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Old 02-05-2019, 07:19 PM #27
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Originally Posted by uppercut510 View Post
nobody was schooled in that fight
Wilder won one round (the illegal knockdown round was a fury round)

Winning the 12th round alone = a schooling

118-110 fury
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Old 02-05-2019, 07:29 PM #28
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Originally Posted by kafkod View Post
Some of the people who run this site are journalists who write articles themselves, sometimes using pen names.

Other articles are taken from various news outlets and publications around the world, and are published here under the user name of the person who reproduced them, rather than the original writer.

From what I gathered reading a twitter discussion between boxing journalists, in which Boxingscene was mentioned, there doesn't seem to be any legal requirement for an internet forum - which is what this site is - or a twitter account, to link to articles they reproduce or even credit the original author.

There are also contributions from people who work in the boxing industry, eg, Frank Warren and Breadman Edwards. Peter Fury used to be a regular contributor at one time.


Re your fight assessments, the Fury who fought Wilder was not the same as the Fury who fought Wlad. Look at the way Fury used his feet in the Wlad fight .. constantly up on his toes, dancing in and out of range like a gangly, ungainly version of a young Ali.

And was that ungainliness, combined with Fury's constant switching from orthodox to southpaw and back, which bamboozled Wlad and prevented him getting his punches off.

Fury did move around against Wilder, but not nearly as much. Most of the time he was right in front of him using head and upper body movement to roll and slip punches.

And the switching, unfortunately, hasn't really been part of Tyson's game since his comeback. He still does it occasionally, but only while out of range and showboating.

Before his lay-off he was switching constantly, while in the pocket, exchanging punches. I really hope he is working on bringing it back fully with Ben, because it's a unique ability that nobody else in the division has.

Pre lay off Fury would have beaten Wilder easily, and maybe stopped him, in my opinion. The Fury who fought Wilder would have lost to AJ. Also imo, of course.

You are underestimating AJ's boxing skill, and overestimating Wilder's. Wilder has problems with tall boxers who stand their ground and use their jabs.

Molina gave him plenty of problems, and look how easily AJ disposed of him. Washington also won most of the rounds he went with Wilder by standing his ground, or coming forward, behind the jab. He only got KO'd when he made the mistake of going to the ropes and lowering his hands, hoping to draw leads from Wilder and counter them, which he didn't have the skill or reaction speed to pull off.

Duhaupus, who in many ways fights like a slower, less powerful version of AJ, was able to land plenty of shots and damaged both Wilder's eyes before Deontay's harder punches took their toll on him.

Like I said, you can't afford to start slowly, lose rounds and take punches against AJ because he starts fast, has real KO power, and is looking to end fights early, if he gets a chance.

I think Wilder would give him chances early and it would be goodnight Deontay, probably within the first 2 or 3 rounds.
I agree 100% with that assessment

The one thing about Wilder is he does have really good power if he can line up that straight right hand. The problem is he takes a long time to do that, the only fight I can think of that he ended quick was stiverne 2 when stiverne just stood there

Wilder fanboys seem to totally discredit the fact that Joshua himself is an extremely brutal puncher, and he hits hard with Straights, hooks and upper cuts whereas Deontay it's just a straight right

Against a guy with Wilders power obviously he has a punchers chance against anyone, but as long as Joshua gets his tactics right of coming forward early with the right hand guarded and letting his hands go as soon as he's in past its range, then I don't give Wilder much of a chance at all.

The worst thing AJ could do is try and box at long range with Wilder because that's really the only way he could possibly lose by getting hit with that right. He needs to make it a firefight and honestly I could see him stopping Wilder in a round ig he does that because I don't think he will hold up well at all to a combination from joshua

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Old 02-05-2019, 10:29 PM #29
Marchegiano Marchegiano is offline
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Originally Posted by kafkod View Post
Some of the people who run this site are journalists who write articles themselves, sometimes using pen names.

Other articles are taken from various news outlets and publications around the world, and are published here under the user name of the person who reproduced them, rather than the original writer.

From what I gathered reading a twitter discussion between boxing journalists, in which Boxingscene was mentioned, there doesn't seem to be any legal requirement for an internet forum - which is what this site is - or a twitter account, to link to articles they reproduce or even credit the original author.

There are also contributions from people who work in the boxing industry, eg, Frank Warren and Breadman Edwards. Peter Fury used to be a regular contributor at one time.


Re your fight assessments, the Fury who fought Wilder was not the same as the Fury who fought Wlad. Look at the way Fury used his feet in the Wlad fight .. constantly up on his toes, dancing in and out of range like a gangly, ungainly version of a young Ali.

And was that ungainliness, combined with Fury's constant switching from orthodox to southpaw and back, which bamboozled Wlad and prevented him getting his punches off.

Fury did move around against Wilder, but not nearly as much. Most of the time he was right in front of him using head and upper body movement to roll and slip punches.

And the switching, unfortunately, hasn't really been part of Tyson's game since his comeback. He still does it occasionally, but only while out of range and showboating.

Before his lay-off he was switching constantly, while in the pocket, exchanging punches. I really hope he is working on bringing it back fully with Ben, because it's a unique ability that nobody else in the division has.

Pre lay off Fury would have beaten Wilder easily, and maybe stopped him, in my opinion. The Fury who fought Wilder would have lost to AJ. Also imo, of course.

You are underestimating AJ's boxing skill, and overestimating Wilder's. Wilder has problems with tall boxers who stand their ground and use their jabs.

Molina gave him plenty of problems, and look how easily AJ disposed of him. Washington also won most of the rounds he went with Wilder by standing his ground, or coming forward, behind the jab. He only got KO'd when he made the mistake of going to the ropes and lowering his hands, hoping to draw leads from Wilder and counter them, which he didn't have the skill or reaction speed to pull off.

Duhaupus, who in many ways fights like a slower, less powerful version of AJ, was able to land plenty of shots and damaged both Wilder's eyes before Deontay's harder punches took their toll on him.

Like I said, you can't afford to start slowly, lose rounds and take punches against AJ because he starts fast, has real KO power, and is looking to end fights early, if he gets a chance.

I think Wilder would give him chances early and it would be goodnight Deontay, probably within the first 2 or 3 rounds.
That's actually pretty interesting. I have been around various boxing forums for quite a long time now and honestly only ever saw members become staff writers. ESB and BA both did that quite a bit, ESB may still.

To the boxing, I think for the most part most of us are probably tired of arguing about these particular three and just want to see it settled. That said, I've said my piece and you have yours so I reckon that is fine enough except I don't honestly feel like you addressed the technical issues I raise and rather just explained to me your opinion as if I asked open ended what is your opinion of the three matching up. I didn't get super-duper specific, but, I was pretty specific.

Joshua's worst and truest technical criticism is his posture. Wilder's biggest and only real points-boxing strength is his posture. Again, I don't care to actually argue, but, I was more interested in your opinion of what I said to you than your opinion of the three. Forgive me if I missed it but I see no mention of posture in any form of language in your response. If you are satisfied then so am I but if you want to go into posture, position, pivots, or tracks, then I'd definitely read it.
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Old 02-05-2019, 10:32 PM #30
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They are clearly working out a deal...
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