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Old 09-17-2018, 04:28 PM #31
BKM- BKM- is offline
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In the first fight he was wobbled or rematch?
About 3 seconds into the start of the first fight. Here:
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Good shot, but like I said it worked against Mike. Evander tasted his full power immediately and found out he could take it. So Tyson was doomed from the get go.
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Old 09-18-2018, 02:53 PM #32
billeau2 billeau2 is offline
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Tyson fought in a style that worked for him. Dempsey fought the same style in mant respects. The deliberate footwork was often in the pivots, there is film of Tyson hitting, turning around to hit to another area all in one fluid motion. The instinct was in the punching, the bobbing and the direct confrontational footwork. Cutting down the ring for distance is something guys with good reach do well, Tyson just concentrated on getting in there fast.

heres the thing: When climbing up and overpowering others you are at an advantage. Your problems start to come when you fight guys who are long (buster Douglas) with reach and can use it in a progressive way...and not simply stand still and punch. Holmes actually had some success against Mike, until his legs would no longer let him make the adjustments.

Your other problem happens when you fight a guy who can hit you and drive you off your base. Tunney did this to Dempsey by moving and attacking, not just with a punch, or two. Evander did this by pushing Mike off his center point and as Mike set to hit Evander attacked.

Both Dempsey and Tyson did not have a very useful reverse gear, so if you could square up enough to push them back, you could have some success. holy was strong enough and more important, a good enough puncher, to do this to mike. Because of their relative height, Tyson would get holy's head in his face, compare that to Razor Ruddock who was looking down on Tyson and hitting up at him (better for tyson than hitting down on him).
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Old 09-19-2018, 12:32 AM #33
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About 3 seconds into the start of the first fight. Here:
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Good shot, but like I said it worked against Mike. Evander tasted his full power immediately and found out he could take it. So Tyson was doomed from the get go.
Didnt he nail him a few times in the rematch?
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Old 09-19-2018, 08:20 AM #34
billeau2 billeau2 is offline
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About 3 seconds into the start of the first fight. Here:
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Good shot, but like I said it worked against Mike. Evander tasted his full power immediately and found out he could take it. So Tyson was doomed from the get go.
That is a very interesting hypothesis! Ill tell ya one thing...that was a hell of a shot to get in seconds after the fight starts. Your understanding also fits well with Holyfield, who never met a puncher he wanted to avoid...ironic that following his corner's instructions and avoiding Bowe, that one time, won him that fight. Also ironic is that even though Evander "thought" he had tasted the power of Mike... if you watch Tyon's feet, he is moving forwards as he connects with this shot, a hell of a shot but not thrown with leverage, Mike was not sitting down on it, or it might have been a disaster for Holy!

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Old 09-21-2018, 03:30 PM #35
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That is a very interesting hypothesis! Ill tell ya one thing...that was a hell of a shot to get in seconds after the fight starts. Your understanding also fits well with Holyfield, who never met a puncher he wanted to avoid...ironic that following his corner's instructions and avoiding Bowe, that one time, won him that fight. Also ironic is that even though Evander "thought" he had tasted the power of Mike... if you watch Tyon's feet, he is moving forwards as he connects with this shot, a hell of a shot but not thrown with leverage, Mike was not sitting down on it, or it might have been a disaster for Holy!
Indeed a hell of a shot, very fast, precise and look at how Tyson ducked right after throwing it to follow up with a left hook. It might not have been the hardest punch he's thrown but it's the hardest he shot he landed on Holyfield, who did not yet feel Tyson's timing out and was vulnerable starting out.

One must salivate from the mouth thinking of a 1989-1991 matchup between them. With Holyfield being slightly less durable, smaller and more willing to trade due to ego, and Tyson being in his prime it would have been a lot closer. But I know I'd always bet on Evander. I don't bet though. I'd buy the PPV earning it after putting in the hard work at the job, get some snacks and put some gospel music in the background in honor of the Real Deal, and watch him out-will Tyson.
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Old 09-21-2018, 03:50 PM #36
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The best incarnation of Tyson was basically finished after he joined Don King (post Michael Spinks). He was never the same fighter after he left Bill Cayton and Kevin Rooney; much less after three years in prison.

Prime Tyson would have probably beaten both Holyfield and Lewis. And I'm still convinced that even his 1997 version would have knocked Holyfield out in the rematch had he not snapped.

As far as "Lewis beating Tyson" is concerned, that's a ridiculous statement by Lewis himself, who still brags about that "win" against a horribly faded version of Iron Mike, and by all the Lewis fans who do the same. Mike was heavily into psychotropic drugs at that time, and needed the money to repay some of his debts.

Moreover, the earlier version of Tyson didn't lack the mental strength to last until the final rounds even when things got tougher than expected. The 1989-2015 version of Tyson was seriously lacking in that department (although the two Razor Ruddock fights would suggest the contrary).

Lastly, Tyson has declared more than once that he fought while intoxicated several times, especially in the second part of his career. And he was still knocking out the Brunos, Golotas and Etiennes of this world...

Holyfield was lucky to have a chance of defining his career against THAT Tyson, at THAT time. Coincidences.

Last edited by Tatabanya; 09-21-2018 at 04:05 PM.
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Old 09-21-2018, 04:40 PM #37
billeau2 billeau2 is offline
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Indeed a hell of a shot, very fast, precise and look at how Tyson ducked right after throwing it to follow up with a left hook. It might not have been the hardest punch he's thrown but it's the hardest he shot he landed on Holyfield, who did not yet feel Tyson's timing out and was vulnerable starting out.

One must salivate from the mouth thinking of a 1989-1991 matchup between them. With Holyfield being slightly less durable, smaller and more willing to trade due to ego, and Tyson being in his prime it would have been a lot closer. But I know I'd always bet on Evander. I don't bet though. I'd buy the PPV earning it after putting in the hard work at the job, get some snacks and put some gospel music in the background in honor of the Real Deal, and watch him out-will Tyson.
i dont bet because the judges determine the winner! I hear ya about that fight... indeed.
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Old 09-24-2018, 08:46 PM #38
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Moreover, the earlier version of Tyson didn't lack the mental strength to last until the final rounds even when things got tougher than expected. The 1989-2015 version of Tyson was seriously lacking in that department (although the two Razor Ruddock fights would suggest the contrary).
I've gone over this a number of times in the past. But it's worth repeating the argument: Despite D'Amato and company doing an excellent job of papering over the cracks and projecting the larger-than-life public persona of the "Baddest Man on the Planet" - Tyson was psychologically flawed before he ever laced up a pair of gloves. All of them knew that Tyson was TERRIFIED of being bullied and that any opponent who realised this was very likely to initiate a catastrophic psychological collapse.

Tyson is very honest about the abuse he suffered as a child and how it shaped his persona. [Link View Has Been Removed. Click Here To Unlock This Content.]

When I was younger I believed that D'Amato functioned as a "father figure" who helped Mike find a way of overcoming his demons. But now I think he was little more than a cynical old man who played on Mike's fears and more than likely made things worse.
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Old 09-25-2018, 03:54 AM #39
Tatabanya Tatabanya is offline
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I've gone over this a number of times in the past. But it's worth repeating the argument: Despite D'Amato and company doing an excellent job of papering over the cracks and projecting the larger-than-life public persona of the "Baddest Man on the Planet" - Tyson was psychologically flawed before he ever laced up a pair of gloves. All of them knew that Tyson was TERRIFIED of being bullied and that any opponent who realised this was very likely to initiate a catastrophic psychological collapse.

Tyson is very honest about the abuse he suffered as a child and how it shaped his persona. [Link View Has Been Removed. Click Here To Unlock This Content.]

When I was younger I believed that D'Amato functioned as a "father figure" who helped Mike find a way of overcoming his demons. But now I think he was little more than a cynical old man who played on Mike's fears and more than likely made things worse.
Of course. Tyson was never sure of himself to begin with. Just remember the footage when he cries with Teddy Atlas before an important amateur fight (which he subsequently wins with a brutal KO).

But - exactly for all of the above, for him to manage to handle the long distance in the early stages of his career was impressive, given his basic mental insecurity. Whereas one can clearly see that after the prison years it was a case of "if I can't knock you out within a few rounds, then fck it".

Last edited by Tatabanya; 09-25-2018 at 07:59 AM.
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