Who's #1: Best Boxers.

[K-DOGG]

Damn....forgot Benny Leonard.

Good call, Mataleao.

[BuddyChacon]

Good responses guys. I'm not a very knowledgeable boxing fan, I'm becoming one more and more, I'm more into MMA. But I also had some problems with the list. I know I might get some **** for this one, and perhaps rightly so, but I see Robinson at the #1 slot followed by Ali or Joe Louis. I know it isn't popular to disrespect Ali, and i don't mean to, but I think sometimes his status as a social icon lifts his status as a boxer past guys like Robinson and Ali who I felt were better fighters. Also I'm really unsure about putting Holyfield, Holmes, and Tunney on the list while passing on guys like Floyd Patterson (55-8, 40 KO's, defeating Archie Moore as a heavyweight and Johannson) or Benny Leonard (lightweight champ for 7 years, went virtually undefeated for almost 20 years).

Benny Leonard should be on the list Patterson definately not. Barney Ross and Canzoneri should also be considered.

[King Koyle]

Last night I was watching ESPN and they had an episode of who's #1.
For anyone who hasn't seen the show, it's basically a countdown show where different writers, historians, analysts, etc. weigh in on who was the best of whatever category: whether it's boxer, football dynasty, etc.
The list according to ESPN of Who are the top twenty boxers of all time is:
20. Holmes 10. Foreman
19. Chavez 9. Hagler
18. Holyfield 8. Leonard
17. Tunney 7. Johnson
16. Tyson 6. Armstrong
15. Duran 5. Dempsey
14. Jones, Jr. 4. Marciano
13. Pep 3. Robinson
12. Moore 2. Louis
11. Frazier 1. Ali

Just curious what everyone thinks (especially you mass pride).

Good post Mataleao!I can't say that I agree with ESPN's list.Although it's certainly not horrible.I'll have to think about it for a while,and get back to you with my top twenty list.But there are some issues that I can already tell you I have with the list.

-Tyson,Jones,&Holyfield would be in my top 100 easy.But definetly not top 20.
-Willie Pep should be a lot higher than 13.Top 5 easy!Also Benny Leonard as you pointed out.
-Robinson should be ahead of Louis and Ali IMO.
-Duran would be a little higher on my list.Marciano a little lower!
-No Sam Langford or Harry Greb?
I'll get back to you Mata with my list.I hope i'll come up with a better one than that.

[King Koyle]

Good responses guys. I'm not a very knowledgeable boxing fan, I'm becoming one more and more, I'm more into MMA. But I also had some problems with the list. I know I might get some **** for this one, and perhaps rightly so, but I see Robinson at the #1 slot followed by Ali or Joe Louis. I know it isn't popular to disrespect Ali, and i don't mean to, but I think sometimes his status as a social icon lifts his status as a boxer past guys like Robinson and Ali who I felt were better fighters. Also I'm really unsure about putting Holyfield, Holmes, and Tunney on the list while passing on guys like Floyd Patterson (55-8, 40 KO's, defeating Archie Moore as a heavyweight and Johannson) or Benny Leonard (lightweight champ for 7 years, went virtually undefeated for almost 20 years).

Well said Mata!I especially agree about the Ali issue.In a social sense Ali is probadly the greatest sports figure of all time.But that doesn't make him the most skilled boxer of all time.I reserve that for Ray Robinson.

[PATO 1]

Last night I was watching ESPN and they had an episode of who's #1.
For anyone who hasn't seen the show, it's basically a countdown show where different writers, historians, analysts, etc. weigh in on who was the best of whatever category: whether it's boxer, football dynasty, etc.
The list according to ESPN of Who are the top twenty boxers of all time is:
20. Holmes 10. Foreman
19. Chavez 9. Hagler
18. Holyfield 8. Leonard
17. Tunney 7. Johnson
16. Tyson 6. Armstrong
15. Duran 5. Dempsey
14. Jones, Jr. 4. Marciano
13. Pep 3. Robinson
12. Moore 2. Louis
11. Frazier 1. Ali

Just curious what everyone thinks (especially you mass pride).

ones i highlighted should be lower, duran and pep higher

[King Koyle]

1.Ray Robinson
2.Willie Pep
3.Henry Armstrong
4.Harry Greb
5.Benny Leonard
6.Joe Louis
7.Muhammad Ali
8.Jack Dempsey
9.Roberto Duran
10.Mickey Walker
11.Tony Canzoneri
12.Gene Tunney
13.Jack Johnson
14.Joe Gans
15.Rocky Marciano
16.Sam Langford
17.Julio Cesar Chavez
18.Barney Ross
19.Stanley Ketchel
20.Archie Moore

[phallus]

1.Ray Robinson
2.Willie Pep
3.Henry Armstrong
4.Harry Greb
5.Benny Leonard
6.Joe Louis
7.Muhammad Ali
8.Jack Dempsey
9.Roberto Duran
10.Mickey Walker
11.Tony Canzoneri
12.Gene Tunney
13.Jack Johnson
14.Joe Gans
15.Rocky Marciano
16.Sam Langford
17.Julio Cesar Chavez
18.Barney Ross
19.Stanley Ketchel
20.Archie Moore

niice list, johnson should be higher, i've seen film footage of him fighting, the man had amazing skills, reflexes, and handspeed

[Kid Achilles]

Some good lists by Mass Pride and others. Glad to see names like Leonard, Greb, Langford and Ketchel,

However, any list where the criteria evokes the legendary term "pound for pound" requires a name: Bob Fitzsimmons. IMO, the most gifted puncher for his size of them all. How many other middleweights can you envision kicking the **** out of a prime 215 pound Jim Jeffries for several rounds before their hands give out?

I don't care what anyone says or replies with, Fitz is a top 5 P4P fighter in my book.

[hellfire508]

****house list. Absolute rubbish.

Gans, Greb, B.Leonard, Charles, Hagler, Monzon, Jofre, Sanchez, Wilde, Saddler, Langford, Ketchel, Whitaker, Walker, B.Foster, M.Spinks, Gomez, Griffith etc etc. all miss out, but all these heavyweights get in? What is wrong with these so called boxing "experts"? They think boxing is purely the heavyweight division.

[hellfire508]

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Harry Greb
5. Roberto Duran
6. Willie Pep
7. Joe Gans
8. Benny Leonard
9. Ezzard Charles
10. Jimmy Wilde
11. Ray Leonard
12. Sam Langford
13. Sandy Saddler
14. Stanley Ketchel
15. Marvin Hagler
16. Carlos Monzon
17. Pernell Whitaker
18. Joe Louis
19. Salvador Sanchez
20. Julio Cesar Chavez
21. Eder Jofre
22. Michael Spinks
23. Mickey Walker
24. Bob Foster
25. Bob Fitzsimmons
26. Alexis Arguello
27. Wilfredo Gomez
28. Emile Griffith
29. Thomas Hearns
30. Jose Napoles

Missing out: Guys like Marciano, Zarate, Perez..

This list isnt exact, its approximate, because I havent sat down and really analysed to get my exact list.