James "Lights Out" Toney vs Bernard "The Executioner" Hopkins @ 160lbs

[therealpugilist]

Hopkins beat all 21 of his opponents in middleweight title fights and never lost to anybody but Jones until he was over 40 years old. He was past 40 when he lost two decisions to Taylor and I thought he won both of those fights. In his prime at 160 Hopkins was almost unbeatable. He was smart, fast, and hit hard with both hands and had great stamina. Both Hopkins and Toney had iron jaws so there would be no knockdowns. Toney was damn good but not as good as Hopkins or as consistent. Jones beat Toney much easier than he beat Hopkins. When Hopkins lost to Jones he hadn't hit his prime yet. A prime Hopkins beats a prime Toney by close ud. at 160 in my opinion.

I think it would've been a better as a trilogy....one fight isn't enough for fighters this good...too hard to choose, ive went back and forth on this since the fight fell through in 2003-2004

the his opponents are pretty average considering he was around when Jones, Benn, Eubank, Julian Jackson, Gerald McClellan, Reggie Johnson, Jorge Castro and others were there in the 90s

1988
Oct 11 Clinton Mitchell Atlantic City, NJ L 4

1990
Feb 22 Greg Paige Philadelphia, Pa W 4
Apr 26 Keith Gray Philadelphia, Pa TK 1
May 18 Eddie Tyler Atlantic City, NJ TK 1
May 31 Jouvin Mercado Rochester, NY TK 2
Jun 30 Khalif Shabazz Atlantic City, NJ KO 1
Aug 5 Percy Harris Atlantic City, NJ W 6
Oct 20 Darrin Oliver Atlantic City, NJ TK 1
Nov 17 Mike Sapp Fort Myers, Fl TK 1

1991
Feb 26 Richard Quiles Philadelphia, Pa KO 1
Mar 18 Steve Langley Las Vegas, Nv TK 3
Jun 20 Pedro Marquez Parsippany, NJ TK 1
Jul 9 Danny Mitchell Philadelphia, Pa KO 1
Sep 23 Ralph Moncrief Philadelphia, Pa TK 1
Nov 26 David McCluskey Philadelphia, Pa TK 7
Dec 13 Willie Kemp Atlantic City, NJ W 10

1992
Jan 31 Dennis Milton Philadelphia, Pa TK 4
Apr 3 Randy Smith Atlantic City, NJ W 10
May 21 Anibal Miranda Paris, France W 10
Aug 28 James Stokes Atlantic City, NJ KO 1
Sep 14 Eric Rhinehart Philadelphia, Pa KO 1
Dec 4 Wayne Powell Atlantic City, NJ TK 1
-USBA Middleweight Championship

1993
Feb 16 Gilbert Baptist Denver, Co W 12
-USBA Middleweight Championship
May 22 Roy Jones Jr Washington, DC L 12
-IBF Middleweight Championship of the World
Aug 3 Roy Ritchie Las Vegas, Nv TK 7
-USBA Middleweight Championship
Nov 23 Wendall Hall Philadelphia, Pa TK 3
-USBA Middleweight Championship

1994
Feb 26 Melvin Wynn Atlantic City, NJ TK 3
May 17 Lupe Aquino Atlantic City, NJ W 12
-USBA Middleweight Championship
Dec 17 Segundo Mercado Quito, Ecuador D 12
-IBF Middleweight Championship of the World

1995
Apr 29 Segundo Mercado Landover, Md TK 7
-IBF Middleweight Championship of the World

1996
Jan 27 Steve Frank Phoenix, Az TK 1
-IBF Middleweight Championship of the World
Mar 16 Joe Lipsey Las Vegas, Nv KO 4
-IBF Middleweight Championship of the World
Jul 16 William Bo James Atlantic City, NJ TK 11
-IBF Middleweight Championship of the World

1997
Apr 19 John David Jackson Shreveport, La TK 7
-IBF Middleweight Championship of the World
Jul 20 Glen Johnson Indio, Ca TK 11
-IBF Middleweight Championship of the World
Nov 18 Andrew Council Upper Marlboro, Md W 12
-IBF Middleweight Championship of the World

1998
Jan 31 Simon Brown Atlantic City, NJ TK 6
-IBF Middleweight Championship of the World
Aug 28 Robert Allen Las Vegas, Nv NC 4
-IBF Middleweight Championship of the World

1999
Feb 6 Robert Allen Washington, DC TK 7
-IBF Middleweight Championship of the World
Dec 12 Antwun Echols Miami, Fl W 12
-IBF Middleweight Championship of the World

2000
May 13 Syd Vanderpool Indianapolis, In W 12
-IBF Middleweight Championship of the World
Dec 1 Antwun Echols Las Vegas, Nv TK 10
-IBF Middleweight Championship of the World

2001
Apr 14 Keith Holmes New York, NY W 12
-WBC Middleweight Championship of the World;
IBF Middleweight Championship of the World
Sep 29 Felix Trinidad New York, NY TK 12
-WBC Middleweight Championship of the World;
WBA Middleweight Championship of the World;
IBF Middleweight Championship of the World

2002
Feb 2 Carl Daniels Reading, Pa TK 10
-WBC Middleweight Championship of the World;
WBA Middleweight Championship of the World;
IBF Middleweight Championship of the World

2003
Mar 29 Morrade Hakkar Philadelphia, Pa TK 8
-WBC Middleweight Championship of the World;
WBA Middleweight Championship of the World;
IBF Middleweight Championship of the World
Dec 13 William Joppy Atlantic City, NJ W 12
-WBC Middleweight Championship of the World;
WBA Middleweight Championship of the World;
IBF Middleweight Championship of the World

2004
Jun 5 Robert Allen Las Vegas, Nv W 12
-WBC Middleweight Championship of the World;
WBA Middleweight Championship of the World;
IBF Middleweight Championship of the World
Sep 18 Oscar De La Hoya Las Vegas, Nv KO 9
-WBC Middleweight Championship of the World;
WBA Middleweight Championship of the World;
IBF Middleweight Championship of the World;
WBO Middleweight Championship of the World

2005
Feb 19 Howard Eastman Los Angeles, Ca W 12
-WBC Middleweight Championship of the World;
WBA Middleweight Championship of the World;
IBF Middleweight Championship of the World;
WBO Middleweight Championship of the World

[therealpugilist]

But was his best at 160? I think his best weight was 168.

Yeah he fought some quality opponents at 160 no denying that but when he fought these opponents he didn't look good at all. Credit for rallying to stop Nunn. but the rest of his best wins at 160 were unconvincing performance wise imo.

Its hard to look great against elite talent, everytime out....he was younger than Canelo when he beat them guys or around his age


Not to many young fighters fought as often as he did so every time out isn't gonna be a shining moment


on both guys best day I favor Toney 6 times out of 10 or 2 out of 3


Toney was more talented in my eyes and would land the cleaner more telling shots

[GOD-FR33]

Toney by decision......

Tony by decision. Toney was a better fight than Hopkin's was. He was also a FULL sized middleweight. Hopkin's run at Middleweight was mostly bums. He beat a lot of part time fighters and didn't challenge himself at that weight. His claim to fame was beating a "smaller" Tito and Hoya. He was a Middleweight fighting as a Light Heavyweight, for years. HIs fans try and forget that fact. When he stepped up against a legit Middleweight in Taylor, he lost TWICE.

[therealpugilist]

Tony by decision. Toney was a better fight than Hopkin's was. He was also a FULL sized middleweight. Hopkin's run at Middleweight was mostly bums. He beat a lot of part time fighters and didn't challenge himself at that weight. His claim to fame was beating a "smaller" Tito and Hoya. He was a Middleweight fighting as a Light Heavyweight, for years. HIs fans try and forget that fact. When he stepped up against a legit Middleweight in Taylor, he lost TWICE.

Hopkins is one of my top 5 fighters since 90

He never beat a top flight natural middleweight


Hard to ignore....simon brown(started @ '47 n was washed up) tito n dlh started below ww....john David jackson was very good til the mid 90s was shot vs Hopkin

His opponents weren't very good...why fight brown or Jackson when guys like terry Norris, quincy Taylor, Reggie Johnson and others

[GOD-FR33]

Yeah...........

Hopkins is one of my top 5 fighters since 90

He never beat a top flight natural middleweight


Hard to ignore....simon brown(started @ '47 n was washed up) tito n dlh started below ww....john David jackson was very good til the mid 90s was shot vs Hopkin

His opponents weren't very good...why fight brown or Jackson when guys like terry Norris, quincy Taylor, Reggie Johnson and others

He's a HOF'mer and I respect him but I think the fans and media overrate him. He was a hard worker and that's where his greatness comes from. It's not so much skill. He wasn't born to fight like some others. Toney was a natural. PERIOD. I feel like him, Floyd, and Roy get too much praise and fighters like Hoya, Norris, Oba Carr Michael Moore, etc don't get enough.

[Rockin']

James was way too unpredictable, as to the shape that he would show up in to fight as a Middleweight. for me to lay any money on a Toney victory. And it was not that James would show up out of condition, he always worked hard and true in the gyms. He would show up to fight night having already been through a war with the scales trying to make the 160lb limit. A shell of the fighter is what you saw under the lights from the strength draining drying out process. James should have wiped his ass with Tiberi and should have handled Johnson in an easier fashion. But when you dry out it just drains you.

Hopkins was a great Middleweight champion, he fought them all and for the most part took care of business. And while Hopkins is viewed as a crafty 'old school' fighter just know that James was smarter and more crafty with the 'old school' styles.

If James shows up strong and ready to fight than I think that he beats Hopkins unanimously. If James shows up weight drained and worn than Hopkins stops him mid fight.

James would be too fast for Hopkins if he comes in to the fight right.

[John Locke]

Toney for sure. At his best he would easily UD Hopkins imo.

[IronDanHamza]

Toney for sure. At his best he would easily UD Hopkins imo.

Who did Toney ever "easily UD?"

He couldn't even easily beat Dave Tiberi, Reggie Johnson, Merqui Sosa, Sanderline Williams, Drake Thazdi or Montel Griffin so I very much doubt he "easily UD's" Hopkins.

[Pac=Duran]

Who wins? Two greats of the sport and masterful inside fighters with great ring IQ. Poll to follow.

Could be the most boring fight in history. lol

[elfag]

Not sure, would have to watch more from that era. A lot of people seem to be thinking of Hopkins as the late 30s early 40s guy who had low output, he had much higher output before then.

Also dont get what people are ****ting on hopkins vs jones, he did much better than toney against jones, he won about 4 rounds. He fought a smart fight, he just had a hard time landing because of jones speed and reflexes.