Who has the better legacy? Joe Calzaghe or Andre Ward?

[SN!PER]

Andre War, he small. Trust me, he a little mofo but he strong as hell. Ain't no body on this universe that could knock out Kovalove, but Andre made it happen so easy. Shit was crazy yall. But now he talkin bout "I'm retire" like wtf man how you gonna retire, that some bullshit. Trust me man it's fake. But anyway man yeah he a true warrior and cain't no man take that away from him. He a beast.

[Cutthroat]

Have a look at the list again. Bute never beat anyone of note and was fragile. Groves has only one win of note, an early close one over Degale. Abraham was a middle, never a top supermiddle. Pascal was weak at supermiddle, but still he's claim to fame is getting beat by a 46 year old. Dirrel beat Froch in most people's eyes, and has no big wins himself. Taylor was coming off a knockout losses to Pavlic Abraham, never beat anyone of note at supermiddle. You mention Barrera, what has he done against World championship material? For that matter, other than Cleverly and 50 year old Hopkins, what has Kovalev done? Calzaghe was never floored or rocked by a journeyman, the only people to floor him were world champions. Ward was floored by a journeyman however. Watch Calzaghes big wins and tell me with a straight face he played it safe in any of them. That was Andre's style. Eubank is on record saying he was never a Cruiser, had to stuff himself silly to even make the weight, an at 13 stone 4 still hurt and floored Carl Thompson, which alot of good cruisers couldn't. He never claimed to be weight drained for Calzaghe,who floored him twice. He had a training camp before Calzaghe because he was fighting a friend of mine, Mark Prince. Thompson held a world title and was not a journeyman. He was forty when he stopped a Haye who was a hot prospect, destroying everyone by knockout. Eubank was better than Froch, who had some good wins but isn't the monster Ward fans like to claim he was. Just like Kovalev has a pretty thin resume himself, other than beating Ward in the eyes of many the first time, who did he beat? Nathan Cleverly, 50 year old BHop, Pascal who had no world class wins at a weight he never fought at again, who's claim to fame is losing he's title to the oldest guy ever. How's that?

-Bute was cold clocking guys left and right, he'd already made 10 consecutive defenses against his SMW title. Froch wrecked him and he was never the same. Also near P4P status, some people even had him ahead of Ward.

-Degale is the current SMW Champion, the only other guy he lost to was current LHW Champion Jack.

-Abraham considered a P4P fighter by most in the sport, 10 consecutive defenses at MW, he moved up to challenge himself. Abraham+Kessler were the favorites to win the tournament.

-Pascal has been a Champion and 168 and 175, he's only lost to guys considered for or on the P4P list. Hopkins arguably beat Calzaghe lol, you can't act like Calzaghe dominated him the win was controversial and the replays all showed him missing.

-Dirrell was a monster, he was schooling Abraham, the last time we saw a SMW with his size/speed/reflexes was a prime RJJ. He was never the same after the Abraham fight.

-Taylor beat a younger Hopkins 2x more convincingly than Calzaghe. He recovered well from Pavlik and went the distance in the rematch, it was the vicious KO from Abraham that ended his career 1 year after Froch.


RJJ was journeyman level by the time he fought Calzaghe. Calzaghe even admitted that RJJ was no good anymore to his own son who was fearing for his father's life after seeing prime RJJ highlights.

Mitchell was journeyman level, he was just fighting other journeymen, SMW back in these days was trash. He'd gotten dropped hard 2x by a journeyman, Green, I'd say he's journeyman.

Salem was journeyman level, again racked up wins over mostly other journeyman, Bute beat him FAR more convincingly than Calzaghe.

NONE of these men possess true KO power, Salem's KO % is barely at 41%. Hopkins isn't a power puncher, RJJ lost all his power years ago, Mitchell is far from a power puncher etc.

And to top it all off he went life and death with Robin Reid who already lost to a journeyman in Mulanga.

You think Calzaghe can take a punch from Kovalev, or even Barrera for that matter? Even Sakio Bika was rocking this dude. He avoided power punchers like the plague because guys with 40% KO ratios were putting him on his ass.

[W1LL]

Joe Calzaghe easily. YDKSAB.

[Cutthroat]

Eubank was a not a full blown cruiser and his two opponents prior to Calzaghe were natural SMW and WWs.

Dawson also lost to Fonfara, Karpency and Pascal. Tarver was already 40 and done when Dawson beat him.

Fact remains, Eubank on any day was better than Dawson at his best.

Eubank fought at catch weights above 175 and was scheduled to fight at 177, he was a cruiser. He took the Calzaghe fight on a week's notice thinking he'd walk through him.

Dawson was considered a P4P fighter when Ward wrecked him, after that Stevenson wrecked him and he was never the same after 2 straight KO's.

You try to discredit his win over Tarver but afterwards Tarver won a title at cruiserweight lol. Dawson's resume is no joke. Adamek is arguably Vitali's best win of his career.

Meanwhile Eubank already lost 2x to Collins, was fighting at cruiser, got dragged back down to 168, then went onto lose to a journeyman cruiser 2x.

[SkillspayBills]

Calzaghe deserves wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yy more respect on this damn site. Reigned in his division for a decade, moved up and beat two ATG's though they were past their best. He was the best at 168 for a long time. I do agree that Ward has a better legacy though. He has a better resume and better skills.

[bluepete]

Completely false, Eubank had been a cruiser for 2 years, he fought his last 2 fights against Alcorne and Barrera well above the LHW limit of 175, he was a cruiser.

Prime Dawson not special? Wins over Hopkins, Tarver x2, Glen Johnson x2, and upset future Cruiserweight Champion and HW Champion Adamek.

Adamek is a top 3 win on Vitali Klitschko's resume and arguably the best win of his career lol.

Eubank was not a cruiserweight, by he's own admission he belonged at supermiddle. You clearly don't know the difference between having overweight non title fights and fighting in your own division. He himself said he had trouble getting heavy enough for Thompson. Of course, the fact that he was fighting Prince, a lightheavyweight, and then easily made 12stone and went 12 strong rounds with Calzaghe makes him a cruiserweight in your eyes. It's still not the truth. Prime Dawson was a lightheavyweight, never had a good win at supermiddle, was totally drained at 168, and says himself Ward wouldn't even give him 170 by way of compromise. If you think that was a good win you must be chair of Wards fan club.

[Rip Chudd]

Sven Ottke, and it's not even close

[bluepete]

-Bute was cold clocking guys left and right, he'd already made 10 consecutive defenses against his SMW title. Froch wrecked him and he was never the same. Also near P4P status, some people even had him ahead of Ward.

-Degale is the current SMW Champion, the only other guy he lost to was current LHW Champion Jack.

-Abraham considered a P4P fighter by most in the sport, 10 consecutive defenses at MW, he moved up to challenge himself. Abraham+Kessler were the favorites to win the tournament.

-Pascal has been a Champion and 168 and 175, he's only lost to guys considered for or on the P4P list. Hopkins arguably beat Calzaghe lol, you can't act like Calzaghe dominated him the win was controversial and the replays all showed him missing.

-Dirrell was a monster, he was schooling Abraham, the last time we saw a SMW with his size/speed/reflexes was a prime RJJ. He was never the same after the Abraham fight.

-Taylor beat a younger Hopkins 2x more convincingly than Calzaghe. He recovered well from Pavlik and went the distance in the rematch, it was the vicious KO from Abraham that ended his career 1 year after Froch.


RJJ was journeyman level by the time he fought Calzaghe. Calzaghe even admitted that RJJ was no good anymore to his own son who was fearing for his father's life after seeing prime RJJ highlights.

Mitchell was journeyman level, he was just fighting other journeymen, SMW back in these days was trash. He'd gotten dropped hard 2x by a journeyman, Green, I'd say he's journeyman.

Salem was journeyman level, again racked up wins over mostly other journeyman, Bute beat him FAR more convincingly than Calzaghe.

NONE of these men possess true KO power, Salem's KO % is barely at 41%. Hopkins isn't a power puncher, RJJ lost all his power years ago, Mitchell is far from a power puncher etc.

And to top it all off he went life and death with Robin Reid who already lost to a journeyman in Mulanga.

You think Calzaghe can take a punch from Kovalev, or even Barrera for that matter? Even Sakio Bika was rocking this dude. He avoided power punchers like the plague because guys with 40% KO ratios were putting him on his ass.

Name the world class fighter Bute cold ****ed.Degale lost to Groves, got a gift against Medina, got beat by Jack in the eyes of everyone who's not blind. Pascal hasn't beaten any top names. Lost clearly to Hopkins, an older Hopkins who you say arguably beat Calzaghe. He lost in real life though. There was no doubt that BHop well beat Pascal though. Abraham never beat a good fighter at 168,he was too small. Taylor had been wrecked by Pavlic.He didn't recover at all. He was smashed in the first fight, well beaten in the second and then stopped by Abraham. He was still good enough to give Froch a boxing lesson most of the way though. Dirrel boxed Frochs ears off, but this monster only has one decent win, a disqualification when he cried off against middleweight Abraham. Your living in a dream world where Calzaghe would have even a tiny bit of trouble with guys like Barrera. He's beaten no one. Kovalevs best win is a 50 year old. Unless you count the fight he was robbed in. Bika rocked Calzaghe? You must be high. Bika was just a durable spoiler. The fact is that Calzaghe was already advanced in years himself when he fought Jones and BHop. BHop went on to school Pavlic out of sight, then he beat Pascal up, who's never beaten anyone or note.Your mate Froch laboured even with an old Kessler, who'd already beaten him when he was a little younger. Calzaghe handled him without butts and fouls unlike Ward in he's cuts win. Wards best win was a guy in Froch who never had a great win himself, and Kovalev, who never beat a good guy who wasn't ancient. Simple as.

[daggum]

It doesn't wipe the first one. Ward got outboxed. The way he beat Kovalev on the 2nd fight wasn't anything special. Low blows and a quick ref stoppage with no count. It wasn't anything great. But that's my opinion and you have yours.

it not only wasn't great. it wasn't legal.

[daggum]

Calzaghe deserves wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yy more respect on this damn site. Reigned in his division for a decade, moved up and beat two ATG's though they were past their best. He was the best at 168 for a long time. I do agree that Ward has a better legacy though. He has a better resume and better skills.

he didnt reign in his division. did he ever fight ottke who was the unified champ....no. he did very very little at 168 until his final 2 years there.