Is Dempsey Overrated? Is his ATG status questionable

[travestyny]

His wraps were never plastered against Willard, that has been argued and proven. Willard had a man in Dempsey's corner for the hand wrapping and walked Dempsey down to the ring to make sure gloves were not tampered with. Same with Willard. A guy by the name of Walter Monaghan stood over Dempsey while his hands were wrapped, he was from Willard's corner. Neither man had any illegal tape, metal bolts or plaster in their gloves.

There was such a thing as insulation tape used in the early 1900s, but it was not prohibited at that time, anyone could use it legally. However, there is no mention of either man using this tape and each man had a rep in the other man's locker room during taping and walking to the ring.

His own trainer who wrapped his hands said the tape used was such that it would harden to cause unusual damage...

and there was a man present in the locker room that stated it was indeed bicycle tape.

Dempsey haters get shook because he destroyed the guy who KO'd their hero Johnson. Made it look easy.

That's laughable. No one hates Dempsey because he beat Willard. Just more of your own insecurities coming out.

Harry Wills ducked Tunney for a shot at Dempsey. A contract was also made for Dempsey/Wills, but the money never came through. He was given a bad check which wouldn't clear the bank, and when the money could not be produced to secure the fight Dempsey told them to take a walk. Wills was big and slow, tailor made for Dempsey. Wills already lost to Sharkey. Dempsey would have made easy work of Wills.

Absolute bullshlt. Dempsey signed the contract for the Wills fight months after that tail of a bounced check. The bounced check happened in September. He signed a contract with a different promoter for the Wills fight in March. He then backed out saying that the contract wasn't valid, and a court of law said he was full of shlt, to summarize.

I started a thread that discusses Jack Johnson, and how he has long been overrated by media and romanticized by boxing fans, insiders and historians.

You started that thread because the OP here put your panties in a knot and you felt you had to "retaliate"

And also complete bullshlt about Jack Johnson and the color-line. You've been proven incorrect about this over and over and over again.

Jack Johnson Accepts to fight Langford and McVey

Jack Johnson Accepts a fight with Joe Jeannette in NYC.

JACK JOHNSON TO FIGHT SAM McVEY

[HOUDINI563]

For a final time whether a court decided for or against Dempsey legally tells no one nothing about anything. Your emphasis concerning this one point in a very long timeline shows your intent is to deceive.

However you are correct concerning Johnson. The long term history as to why Johnson did not fight Langford, Jeanette or McVey in title bouts is in sync with the snippets of newspaper clippings you provided.

[travestyny]

For a final time whether a court decided for or against Dempsey legally tells no one nothing about anything.

False. It tells them that there was a valid contract that Dempsey broke in order to NOT fight Wills. Does it not?

Your emphasis concerning this one point in a very long timeline shows your intent is to deceive.

Is it deceitful to give FACTS? Well that's odd. I thought it was deceitful to LIE. Hmmm.

I refuse to let you claim that I am deceiving anyone by presenting the facts of what happened with this instance. The Mayweather/Pacquiao saga had many different twists and turns, and some blame each of them at different times. The very first instance of that fight not happening should certainly be blamed on Pacquiao, and even his own trainer agrees with that. Well I can't find one instance of Wills being at fault here, but I can find an instance of Dempsey being at fault, and that is when he broke that valid contract.

However you are correct concerning Johnson. The long term history as to why Johnson did not fight Langford, Jeanette or McVey in title bouts is in sync with the snippets of newspaper clippings you provided.

Much appreciated.

Look, we've gone over this many times regarding Dempsey. I don't hate the dude, as I've been accused of. Nor do I think that he was a racist, as I've been accused of. My past posts back me up on this. The only question I have about him regarding Wills is why in the world he would break a valid contract that actually guaranteed him more money than his guarantee for Tunney, and to fight whom he stated was THE ONLY MAN HE WANTED TO FIGHT SINCE BECOMING CHAMPION.

I've asked you what could have been the reason for this, and you didn't answer. Actually, often I ask you questions that you refuse to answer. That should tell you something. You've stated that it was over money, but I've shown that not only does that make zero sense, but he would have been able to pocket a large portion of the guarantee in accordance with the contract he signed if for some reason the fight didn't come off. He still backed out.

You refuse to even attempt to explain his actions, saying we need his testimony, when I've posted various sources as to his reason for skipping out on this contractual obligation, and you have posted it as well. The courts went so far as to even issue an injunction to stop the Tunney fight due to this contractual obligation, which Dempsey got his team to circumvent.

And by the way, after this instance, Dempsey went on record saying that Wills will NEVER get a shot. Why? Because Wills was taking him to court to get a shot. Think about that.

Rickard got in his ear and convinced him not to take this fight. But if you think that absolves Dempsey from any blame, I disagree. Hell, even Dempsey seemingly disagrees, as he stated that he would demand that this fight be made or demand to know why not, showing that he believed he had the ultimate power to get it done. But mind you, he claimed he wanted Wills since 1919. He made that statement in 1926! And if I remember correctly, the public was asking for the fight since...1922 at least? Guess what. He deserves at least some of the blame, and especially for breaking that contract.

Had it not been for him breaking that contract, I would agree with your assessment of this issue 100%. The contract was signed, the promoter was there and willing, the money was in place, and he walked. Not only walked. BROKE the contract. Those are the facts.

[HOUDINI563]

There are many reasons why the bout with Tunney was made vs the bout with Wills. Again you showing a judges opinion does not explain all the reasons why the bout with Wills did not occur. The known history, known for nearly 100 years explains why the bout never came off. Why this bout never occurred is probably the most well known and extensively written about saga in all boxing history. Wills himself years later stated Dempsey had nothing to do with the bout not happening....it was the powers that controlled boxing that did not want the fight to occur. That’s Wills himself talking.

[travestyny]

There are many reasons why the bout with Tunney was made vs the bout with Wills. Again you showing a judges opinion does not explain all the reasons why the bout with Wills did not occur. The known history, known for nearly 100 years explains why the bout never came off. Why this bout never occurred is probably the most well known and extensively written about saga in all boxing history. Wills himself years later stated Dempsey had nothing to do with the bout not happening....it was the powers that controlled boxing that did not want the fight to occur. That’s Wills himself talking.

Ok. Then tell me why Dempsey bailed out of the contract. That's all I want to know.

[Blue54]

Yes and no his resume is overated but himself as a fighter no. He help invinte the bob and weave style and Dempsey Roll. No other Heavy of his time was fighting like that. He help revolutionize offensive swarming style.
But he didnt fight the best of the best during his reign it was more about the fame and money for him at the time but he still is a major pioneer in the sport.

[GhostofDempsey]

Notice the similarity between Dempsey’s defense and that of Whitaker and Prime Tyson.







Dempsey would have easily handled slow, plodding Wills. McVey, Jeanette, and even Johnson would have been no match.

[travestyny]

There are many reasons why the bout with Tunney was made vs the bout with Wills.

Ok. Then tell me why Dempsey bailed out of the contract. That's all I want to know.

See, this is what I mean, Houdini. If you want to discuss this with verified facts and honestly, then let's do it. If not, then you should stop accusing me of trying to deceive anyone. I'm willing to discuss this instance with you but every time I ask you a question about it, you go silent.

[Anthony342]

Overrated? ATG Status Questionable?

No and No. Next f****n question.

[Zmerai Khan]

Notice the similarity between Dempsey’s defense and that of Whitaker and Prime Tyson.







Dempsey would have easily handled slow, plodding Wills. McVey, Jeanette, and even Johnson would have been no match.

This is why places like BixingScene exist. This is a great post, thank you!