Liston vs Frazier 1971

[travestyny]

If you accept that it means you disregard to one extent, or another, the Foreman Frazier fight. Nothing wrong with that, but just out of curiosity are you doing it on the grounds that Frazier was old against Foreman? because Foreman has similar attributes, similar style, and was influenced considerably by Liston.

Furthermore, Liston prime had great endurance, so how any fighter would have him gassing is beyond me.

Frazier would have to get past Liston's reach, would have to hit him enough... remember that Liston had a great chin...He would have to hit him and win rounds, despite the reach advantage. and Frazier was not really faster than Liston by much, if at all...

I think the world of Frazier and maybe he could find a way to do what no other guy did against Liston, and get inside and beat him to the body? I mean as much as I try I cannot see how Joe beats Liston prime for prime... Just trying to see what others see here that I am not seeing.

I'm with you on this one. Agree 100%.

[atomicsad]

Liston was done by 1971. Frazier by ko.

[billeau2]

I'm with you on this one. Agree 100%.

I wonder how many people who think about Liston know that he mentored Foreman. Foreman who was characterized as being a very scary guy, was, in his own words, meek when around Sonny lol!

[OctoberRed]

I wonder how many people who think about Liston know that he mentored Foreman. Foreman who was characterized as being a very scary guy, was, in his own words, meek when around Sonny lol!

People were scared to death of Foreman when he was fighting in his 40s

[QueensburyRules]

1971 is the Frazier that beat Ali. That Frazier stops Liston of 71 within eight rounds. We are talking an old shop worn Liston vs probably the best Frazier. Prime vs Prime I see a more competitive fight certainly but in the end Joe wears Liston down and takes his heart. Joes pressure is just too much over 15 rounds and Listons heart certainly is a question mark. Frazier by 12th round stoppage.

--- Hooooboy, Houdini!!!

Finally you not only get the results right, you nailed it bingo style.

Might be hope for you yet...

Oh, and 19 yr old George in awe of Sonny is to be expected in a young man with scrapes with the law seeking a like minded father figure.

Fight should be 61 Sonny vs 71 Frazier, otherwise we get balony like 40 Yr old SRLeonard vs Spence...c'mon!

[Joe Beamish]

I'll easily take the '71 version of Smokin' Joe over old man Liston.

The young giant Foreman who smashed Frazier used that highly effective two armed shoving-yo-azz-away-from-me tactic. Smash you when you're off balance. Whereas the young Liston is going to throw some hellacious jabs -- which Frazier was really good at slipping. The old Liston...I don't see it.

[them_apples]

I don't know if Frazier would KO an old Liston. Obviously there is a giant chasm as to how Liston's performance would be affected by father time. But this is an easy fight because George Foreman was laced up by Liston and fought using the template set... Frazier would have a similar contention with Liston, never a good style for Joe.

There might be some that would argue that a younger Frazier might have done better against Foreman, I am open to that argument to a degree... Everyone can respect Joe, he is in my opinion the closest thing we have to a Mexican styled great heavyweight fighter... He fought that way and was fantastic!

Left Hooks, coming forwards at all times, changing the speed and the position on the punches coming in, bobbing weaving slowly, drawing the man into chasing the head.... But one fundamental difference between Joe's style and Dempsey vis a vis Tyson is the foot speed. Dempsey's bob and weave was quick, it involved pivots and getting inside immediately against the man. Tyson did it also: You can watch him attack, coming in fast, then moving over to another position and starting the attack again.

The devil is in the details: Marciano and Frazier depended more on being relentless than fast. But there is always a chance of a big man catching you with his reach if you do not have the foot speed to get past that reach on the attack. Marciano to my knowledge never had to fight a big strong guy, and Frazier had his fights with Foreman... That is what I am going on here.

Style wise Liston has his number, but in 71 Frazier was a machine and Liston had drug and training issues. Like wise if 90's george fought a prime Frazier he probably loses that one as well (see him vs qawi, a smaller weaker Frazier).

in 61? Liston beats Frazier, he is a good boxer, iron chin, heavy hands and the mental game of any great champion.

[QueensburyRules]

Style wise Liston has his number, but in 71 Frazier was a machine and Liston had drug and training issues. Like wise if 90's george fought a prime Frazier he probably loses that one as well (see him vs qawi, a smaller weaker Frazier).

in 61? Liston beats Frazier, he is a good boxer, iron chin, heavy hands and the mental game of any great champion.

--- Nice try, but no cigar for you.

George bounced qawi into the ropes at will before Knocking him out.

61 Liston is a myth. Top Shelf natural attributes, but end of the day Joe and George beat much better opponents wit George better than Joe.

Of course in Sonny's day, mob enforcement could visit their dressing rooms to insure a Sonny win, your last grasp of relevancy...

[them_apples]

--- Nice try, but no cigar for you.

George bounced qawi into the ropes at will before Knocking him out.

61 Liston is a myth. Top Shelf natural attributes, but end of the day Joe and George beat much better opponents wit George better than Joe.

Of course in Sonny's day, mob enforcement could visit their dressing rooms to insure a Sonny win, your last grasp of relevancy...

he bounced qawi around because qawi was a 5 ft 7 LHW, but not before qawi landed about 20 flush punches on Foremans dome. I don't know where we are going with this but if that was a prime Frazier in there with a 40 year old Foreman, the speed difference would have been too great - and people forget Frazier still got up 6 times. Thats a serious downplay of Frazier abilities if you think that old version of george would do the same number on him.

Liston was certainly better in 61. Fraziers resume is only Marginally better than Listons because of the W he picked up over Ali. But Liston faced the deadliest version of Ali in his first bout, and actually wasn't doing too bad for the first half. That version of Ali was probably impossible to beat.

[phallus]

I used to but the Foreman/Kiston comparison. Not any more. Two completely different fighters. George was much more physical, larger, quicker. Liston more “technical”. Prime Liston was 6’1 and 212 pounds. Thus the size difference was not in any way overwhelming. Size in the hwt division is really the last thing to consider. Joe in his prime slipped jabs with ease. Note the high % of Ali’s jabs he slipped in 71. Well over 50%. Liston did not have movement to keep Joe off of him so once Frazier is inside he will do damage.

I'll easily take the '71 version of Smokin' Joe over old man Liston.

The young giant Foreman who smashed Frazier used that highly effective two armed shoving-yo-azz-away-from-me tactic. Smash you when you're off balance. Whereas the young Liston is going to throw some hellacious jabs -- which Frazier was really good at slipping. The old Liston...I don't see it.

i agree with these guys, liston isn't that much bigger than frazier and he fought in a more conventional style than fo'man. in 1971 liston was in his late 40's and joe was just at the end of his prime, i think joe has a chance at stopping the old liston late