lennox lewis and George foreman

[The Old LefHook]

Lewis did not have the key of sustained mobility. He would not be able to remain mobile enough for long enough to beat Foreman. Easy to walk down if you are man enough--and George was--and a glass jaw as well. He had a hell of a punch, but there is no doubt in my mind he would have been unable to survive his own power if someone delivered it on his face. No world class jaw at all, so certainly not an ATG jaw. He barely had the whiskers to make the cut to ATG. Such a ranking in the most important AT category will not even place him in the top 5. Sorry, the truth can be cold by way of brutal.

[Mugwump]

Young George Foreman is a problem for any fighter. I'm sure even Ali would admit that had he lost so much as a split-second of concentration he would have been starched.

Difficult fight to call against Lewis. I certainly don't subscribe to the theory that he had a "glass chin" as he was tagged many, many times in his career by some monstrous punchers and never touched the canvas.

That said, he would have to be right at the top of his game to defeat Foreman. I suppose the big question is how would George hold up against a genuine Super Heavy with explosive punching power. I mean, it's one thing bullying Frazier around the ring. But someone Lewis' size and mobility is an entirely different proposition.

My guess is the fight would hinge upon Lewis' ability to stay out of trouble early and then (like Ali) capitalise on George's propensity to gas out.

For me it's a pick'em.

[QueensburyRules]

Young George Foreman is a problem for any fighter. I'm sure even Ali would admit that had he lost so much as a split-second of concentration he would have been starched.

Difficult fight to call against Lewis. I certainly don't subscribe to the theory that he had a "glass chin" as he was tagged many, many times in his career by some monstrous punchers and never touched the canvas.

That said, he would have to be right at the top of his game to defeat Foreman. I suppose the big question is how would George hold up against a genuine Super Heavy with explosive punching power. I mean, it's one thing bullying Frazier around the ring. But someone Lewis' size and mobility is an entirely different proposition.

My guess is the fight would hinge upon Lewis' ability to stay out of trouble early and then (like Ali) capitalise on George's propensity to gas out.

For me it's a pick'em.

- -You just pickin' yer nose again.

As soon as Briggs tasted 50 yr old George power, he took flight upon the ropes until fights end. After eating Lewis power, he lit into Lewis in a firefight, only succumbing when his asthma betrayed him, corkscrewing him into the canvas. Lewie never hurt him, Big George did.

[them_apples]

so in your opinion, which I respect, Foreman does not use his size so much? as compared to Lewis?

I do think Foreman does things like turn a man into his punches, and fight inside, better than Lewis. I got to thinking who Foreman fought that was very strong... and I mean pre big George...Lyle was strong and so was Norton... But im not seeing how George is automatically equipped to deal with a big technically overhauled puncher, in the mode of Lewis.

I say "automatic" because I don't know how that fight would turn out but what i do know is that Lewis did well against big guys...We have Grant, we have Razor...I mean Lewis knows how to make those adjustments.

I personally think Liston takes both of them to the woodshed. Liston had better footwork, was faster and more technically sound, and was able to finish it quickly if he got either man in trouble. George was a heavy handed sensation no doubt about it but as Ali showed...he had cracks in his game if one could deal with the punch. Lewis, on the other hand, could use the uppercut very well, and had great power and consistency with his combo punching and right.

All three men could use the jab well. Liston had the best out of all three imo.

In my opinion of course, the guys Lewis was fighting weren't nearly as dangerous as the men George was in with. Lewis was technically skilled but never a killer and couldn't take a shot. When Lewis got in with an over the hill holyfield it was just a boxing match, he didn't have the strength to "overpower" Holyfield. Foreman, even in the 90's, although slower - was unquestionably stronger than Evander when they fought. I think the reason for this is because Lewis is actually about 220 at 6 ft 5 (his olympic weight), and even then he was building himself up with weights, you can see now in his old age how he is tall and slim in the frame. Foreman was built like a concrete bunker.
even in his pictures standing with Tyson as a youth, he looks like a basketball player. This is why he never came across as a wrecking ball with an iron chin.

I know this isn't the best example by any means, but I just can't picture prime Foreman losing to a guy like Lewis on character alone. Regardless of who had the better skillset (for me it's a close one, Lewis being better on his feet - Foreman being craftier and yes with an even better jab).

For the record size doesn't mean a whole lot, Foreman starched Cooney like it was a stroll in the park, regardless if Cooney was finished - he was still 6 ft 6 and considered a super heavy (size is always played up by casuals).

Liston is another story, I agree on his best night he was one of the best heaviest ever and is often overlooked. It's hard to not pick him over most fighters because his skill set was so good for a big man as was his physical attributes (what was he bad at?).

[billeau2]

In my opinion of course, the guys Lewis was fighting weren't nearly as dangerous as the men George was in with. Lewis was technically skilled but never a killer and couldn't take a shot. When Lewis got in with an over the hill holyfield it was just a boxing match, he didn't have the strength to "overpower" Holyfield. Foreman, even in the 90's, although slower - was unquestionably stronger than Evander when they fought. I think the reason for this is because Lewis is actually about 220 at 6 ft 5 (his olympic weight), and even then he was building himself up with weights, you can see now in his old age how he is tall and slim in the frame. Foreman was built like a concrete bunker.
even in his pictures standing with Tyson as a youth, he looks like a basketball player. This is why he never came across as a wrecking ball with an iron chin.

I know this isn't the best example by any means, but I just can't picture prime Foreman losing to a guy like Lewis on character alone. Regardless of who had the better skillset (for me it's a close one, Lewis being better on his feet - Foreman being craftier and yes with an even better jab).

For the record size doesn't mean a whole lot, Foreman starched Cooney like it was a stroll in the park, regardless if Cooney was finished - he was still 6 ft 6 and considered a super heavy (size is always played up by casuals).

Liston is another story, I agree on his best night he was one of the best heaviest ever and is often overlooked. It's hard to not pick him over most fighters because his skill set was so good for a big man as was his physical attributes (what was he bad at?).

its funny you mention the Ba5tard maker (Holy). We are of the same mind here. Holy was always a guy who was not particularly sharp, but his critique of Lewis after the first fight had tremendous merit! He was absolutely right that Lewis should have finished him off instead of complaining about the decision.

Lewis' biggest fault was that he was not a killer. Its an intangible but it looms large when talking about a fight with Foreman. Foreman was a killer in some respects, he was an excellent finisher (learned that from Liston no doubt). I think Lewis and Foreman were both large men....But you swayed me because I find it intriguing that we both focused on the Holyfield fight with the same idea. As the Samurai saying goes: "The big things that appear to be of great consequence is of little, and the small things of great consequence.

lewis showed a real weakness in that fight with Holy...I also think he showed a real strength in hanging in there against Vitali but... I think you are correct and if pressed I would give it to George over Lewis. And...This would be a fight I would love to watch!! Talk about fireworks!

I should say that Mugwump and Lefty also make some great points. Lefty's point about Lewis' sustained mobility and how his chin really was a problem when considering his entire career means that there would be a point where (again as Lefty says) Lewis would have to feel that punch. I will say to play devil's advocate, that Vitali had a damn good punch that Lewis dealt with...

[Mugwump]

I hear the argument about Lewis being cautious and not "a killer". I'm sure if he were here now his response would be, "Did I occasionally play it safe in fights ... ? Absolutely. It's the reason my record is what it is. And let me add that had I been even more cautious I wouldn't have walked onto two chump punches and remained undefeated".

I guess it really depends on one's perspective. Lewis was never a conformist fighter. He did things his own way and to hell with everyone else - including Manny Steward who often could be seen in Lewis' corner going absolutely apoplectic.

And I have a good deal of respect for that kind of mindset. After all - it's the guy lacing up the gloves who's taking all the risks. If the trainer or the fans don't dig what you are doing - well they can just kick rocks.

What I will say is that I've seen many a risk-taker press the self-destruct button.

With respect to Foreman, we shouldn't forget that Ali exposed some pretty serious flaws in his tactical and psychological makeup. And the version of Ali which beat Foreman was nowhere near his prime.

Not without reason did Ali label his strategy, "Rope-a-DOPE" because the most inexplicable thing about that fight was the fact that EVERYONE in the audience could see exactly what Ali was up to from the opening bell - except big dumb George.

They say speed kills. But nothing kills more effectively than mind-boggling STUPIDITY. And young George possessed such in spades.

[Mugwump]

- -You just pickin' yer nose again.

As soon as Briggs tasted 50 yr old George power, he took flight upon the ropes until fights end. After eating Lewis power, he lit into Lewis in a firefight, only succumbing when his asthma betrayed him, corkscrewing him into the canvas. Lewie never hurt him, Big George did.

I was about to say that being repeatedly bludgeoned into the canvas is a sure sign of asthma ... LOL.

[brian___]

Young Foreman was too much, but Lewis could have beaten the comeback Foreman

[QueensburyRules]

I hear the argument about Lewis being cautious and not "a killer". I'm sure if he were here now his response would be, "Did I occasionally play it safe in fights ... ? Absolutely. It's the reason my record is what it is. And let me add that had I been even more cautious I wouldn't have walked onto two chump punches and remained undefeated".

I guess it really depends on one's perspective. Lewis was never a conformist fighter. He did things his own way and to hell with everyone else - including Manny Steward who often could be seen in Lewis' corner going absolutely apoplectic.

And I have a good deal of respect for that kind of mindset. After all - it's the guy lacing up the gloves who's taking all the risks. If the trainer or the fans don't dig what you are doing - well they can just kick rocks.

What I will say is that I've seen many a risk-taker press the self-destruct button.

With respect to Foreman, we shouldn't forget that Ali exposed some pretty serious flaws in his tactical and psychological makeup. And the version of Ali which beat Foreman was nowhere near his prime.

Not without reason did Ali label his strategy, "Rope-a-DOPE" because the most inexplicable thing about that fight was the fact that EVERYONE in the audience could see exactly what Ali was up to from the opening bell - except big dumb George.

They say speed kills. But nothing kills more effectively than mind-boggling STUPIDITY. And young George possessed such in spades.

- -George a much higher IQ than Ali, and that you ain't figured that out is what boggles your mind.

That you don't see or refuse to acknowledge the dozen extraordinary events in Africa never to be repeated in any other fight that favored Ali is part of that boggle.

George ruined Ali just as sure as he ruined Field. Their KO% drops to journeyman levels as do their skills. Ferdie forbid the lucrative rematch Ali talked of in his postfight Playboy interview.

Mugsy, you must be a noob to the sport, right?

[billeau2]

- -George a much higher IQ than Ali, and that you ain't figured that out is what boggles your mind.

That you don't see or refuse to acknowledge the dozen extraordinary events in Africa never to be repeated in any other fight that favored Ali is part of that boggle.

George ruined Ali just as sure as he ruined Field. Their KO% drops to journeyman levels as do their skills. Ferdie forbid the lucrative rematch Ali talked of in his postfight Playboy interview.

Mugsy, you must be a noob to the sport, right?

Your a boob to the sport thats for sure...Mugsy runs circles around you kid and hes also sane...

yeah its all a conspiracy of course! The witch doctors all got together yup thats what happened....

There is nothing funnier than watching you of all people calling others out. By the way Foreman himself admits he was none to smart and had growing to do... Hence the break and come back, but the boob knows best!!