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Old 10-04-2017, 12:58 PM #231
DreamerUSA DreamerUSA is offline
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Originally Posted by The Big Dunn View Post
I am not suggesting that 99% of Americans want gun control. I am saying that the NRA wields a disproportionate amount of influence IMO and that there organization drives way too much of how we address this issue with how they leverage republicans.

Sorry if I wasn't clear homie.

I have looked at the research. Thats why I want to have a real debate about this in Congress. As I said to Zaroku, I don't think his views and mine can't exist together.

I am not against the 2nd amendment. I am not against banning guns.

I just think there are some things we can do to change the gun culture in the society and we can also enact law that does limit the production and sale of military weapons for regular citizens.

I am looking for a compromise, not just to get my way!
Not to be a dick, but your reasoning is flawed and inconsistent. You can't be a 2nd amendment supporter and be ok with banning guns. Those positions are oil and water. There is no ambiguity in the 2nd amendment.

Thats not to say you can't be ok with some guns being legal and banning others, but it is inconsistent with the 2nd amendment.

As for compromise, you need to do away with the 2nd amendment and then go about the business of debating what should or should'nt be legal. In that case you need 2/3 of the House to pass an amendment and 3/4 of the states to approve it or you need 2/3 of the states to call for a Constitutional Convention. Good luck.
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Old 10-04-2017, 01:00 PM #232
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Originally Posted by Boxfan83 View Post
Well its the loss of innocent lives I think that gets me worked up at least. The fact that you can be ruthlessly murdered at church or at a concert is a scary reality. I totally understand that other countries have it way worse but typically those are countries in civil war or in some kind of conflict. We have none of that and can be one of 8 at any time or our family members can be. Its a harsh/scary reality living in a free country.
US is not that bad. Especially the last couple decades.

It was worse 80s, 90s.

Media just sensationalizes things and gun ownership is an easy blame.
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Old 10-04-2017, 01:05 PM #233
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Originally Posted by Left Hook Tua View Post
US is not that bad. Especially the last couple decades.

It was worse 80s, 90s.

Media just sensationalizes things and gun ownership is an easy blame.
This is so true. I believe the stats show we are the safest we've been in over 20 years. The 90s were rough when guys my age were 18 to 20s and dumbing out
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Old 10-04-2017, 01:07 PM #234
DreamerUSA DreamerUSA is offline
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Originally Posted by Boxfan83 View Post
Well its the loss of innocent lives I think that gets me worked up at least. The fact that you can be ruthlessly murdered at church or at a concert is a scary reality. I totally understand that other countries have it way worse but typically those are countries in civil war or in some kind of conflict. We have none of that and can be one of 8 at any time or our family members can be. Its a harsh/scary reality living in a free country.
I'm guessing the vast majority of us can emapthize with the victims families and friends. It is a ****ty reality. That does'nt change the fact that in the grand scheme of things its a blip on the radar.
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Old 10-04-2017, 01:21 PM #235
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Originally Posted by DreamerUSA View Post
Not to be a dick, but your reasoning is flawed and inconsistent. You can't be a 2nd amendment supporter and be ok with banning guns. Those positions are oil and water. There is no ambiguity in the 2nd amendment.

Thats not to say you can't be ok with some guns being legal and banning others, but it is inconsistent with the 2nd amendment.

As for compromise, you need to do away with the 2nd amendment and then go about the business of debating what should or should'nt be legal. In that case you need 2/3 of the House to pass an amendment and 3/4 of the states to approve it or you need 2/3 of the states to call for a Constitutional Convention. Good luck.
I disagree. The 2nd amendment was included because a well regulated militia was necessary to the security of a free State, thus giving citizens the opportunity to fight back against a tyrannical federal government. As such, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Clarifying the types of guns/magazines for sale to the public does not infringe on any individual's right to bear arms.

Just like there are cars that are "street legal" and cars that are not. There should be guns that are legal for purchase and guns that are not.

I also don't agree we have to do away with the 2nd amendment. We just need to modernize it, for lack of a better term.

Last edited by The Big Dunn; 10-04-2017 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 10-04-2017, 01:31 PM #236
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So why aren't you blasting places like Chicago's gun laws, as they see hundreds of people murdered yearly?

You're hyped up on a VERY small percentage of murders, but ignoring where the most murders are occurring.
Where am I hyped? lol! I am talking about mass murders of innocent people. TO be quite honest, I think itd be safe to say most shootings in places in like Chicago are among gang members and drug dealers and my opinion about that is if you play with fire, 1 day you might get burned.

I understand innocent people die on a daily basis, but when you have to live in a society where you may get shot in church, there is something wrong.
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Old 10-04-2017, 01:33 PM #237
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Originally Posted by The Big Dunn View Post
Just like there are cars that are "street legal" and cars that are not. There should be guns that are legal for purchase and guns that are not.
Car choice isn't guaranteed in the Bill of Rights.
The right to keep and bear arms is.

False equivalence.
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Old 10-04-2017, 01:34 PM #238
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Originally Posted by Left Hook Tua View Post
US is not that bad. Especially the last couple decades.

It was worse 80s, 90s.

Media just sensationalizes things and gun ownership is an easy blame.
I understand, I blame the media too, it has me trippin sometimes.

1 difference though in the 80's and 90's were the shootings were moreso among gangs and drug dealers. So chances are if you werent banging or into drugs your chances of just getting shot decreased significantly. Nowadays you dont even know who the gangsters are and these rogue shooters are on the rise.
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Old 10-04-2017, 01:40 PM #239
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I'm guessing the vast majority of us can emapthize with the victims families and friends. It is a ****ty reality. That does'nt change the fact that in the grand scheme of things its a blip on the radar.
Well I just think its just a blip on the radar when its not you or someone you love. Thats the mindset we have now, its sad. And I am not blaming just you, its us as a country. Because soon this tragedy that happened in Vegas will be forgotten, we will just carry on with life as normal. Those peoples families that died will never get justice or reasons why. Its f'ed up in my opinion at least.
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Old 10-04-2017, 01:45 PM #240
DreamerUSA DreamerUSA is offline
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I disagree. The 2nd amendment was included because a well regulated militia was necessary to the security of a free State, thus giving citizens the opportunity to fight back against a tyrannical federal government. As such, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Clarifying the types of guns/magazines for sale to the public does not infringe on any individual's right to bear arms.

Just like there are cars that are "street legal" and cars that are not. There should be guns that are legal for purchase and guns that are not.

I also don't agree we have to do away with the 2nd amendment. We just need to modernize it, for lack of a better term.
This is just nuance. You said banning guns. Banning is infringing. Words have meaning and like I said before there is no ambiguity in the 2nd amendment. We have a legal framework in place that allows for the changes you want, just ignoring two Constitutional amendments or coming up with some reinterpetation of those amendments is'nt it.
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