Wladimir Klitschko vs Muhammad Ali

[damuttz112]

Personal Ad-Hominem attacks?

Lets focus on the points being made rather than attack the person.

Was taking piss mate..

[2todabody]

Anything can happen when heavies are throwing hands, but Ali has too much speed, skill, and underrated pop for Wlad. I dont think any of Wlad's opponents have prepared him for what Ali will bring, and if you take add another wrinkle in the equation and take what Stewart taught Wlad away, he is really in trouble.

[MJ223]

Ah, but we're talking about a matchup of a Prime 1960's Ali (You know, not the one who lost to Frazier, Norton or Holmes), therefore we should extend that same courtesy to Wlad. A prime Wlad is the one AFTER the Sanders and Brewster losses, the one who improved a few wrinkles in his game under the tutelage of R.i.P. Emmanuel Steward. Therefore using those losses is irrelevant, as me using the Frazier loss to make my point.

Prime 1960's Ali Vs Prime 2006-2012 version of Wlad. Even the not-so-prime Wlad wasn't a bad fighter, even though he lost a few fights, but that's now the one we're using in this match up.

Wasn't Steward in Wlads corner when he was getting smacked around the ring by Samuel Peter and Brewster???

Steward came on sometime in 04 correct???

[MJ223]

Pot calling the kettle black. I gave you a serious reply and the best you can come up with is unsubstantiated replies of the same. "That's what Wlad does" is not an answer. That's not what Wlad does. That's what Wlad did when not at his peak against aggressive, come-forward knockout punchers. And that's not what Wlad would do against a prime-mover, who doesn't even throw punches correctly, didn't even TKO lesser opponents in his prime when he was Heavyweight Champion, and finally he couldn't do against a 250 pound, 6'6 man with proven Boxing skills that have given him 59 wins with 50 ko's, most of which were one-sided (no matter what you personally think about the quality of those opponents, because we can play that game with Ali's record as well all day long).

Do you really want to do that while supporting Wlads resume???

[AM Boxing5]

Prime for prime

Wladimir Klitschko wipes the floor with Muhammad Ali.

[cupocity303]

Wasn't Steward in Wlads corner when he was getting smacked around the ring by Samuel Peter and Brewster???

Steward came on sometime in 04 correct???

Yes, he went 16-1 with him I believe. It speaks to the fact that he didn't fire him after a few bad fights at the beginning like most fighters do (I.E. Dawson letting go his trainer), because he must've helped him improve and it showed.

He simply overdid it in the Brewster fight for a man with that much mass, and to Brewster's credit, he showed heart and hung in there for just a while longer to capitalize. I'm not even one of those to say that Brewster was a bad fighter OR that something was wrong with Wlad (I.E. the poisoning conspiracy theory, low sugar etc,) Brewster had a pretty damn good record and a class A chin, pretty good punching power to boost.

[cupocity303]

Do you really want to do that while supporting Wlads resume???

Come again?

[MJ223]

Come again?

Correct me if I'm wrong..... Refering to this statement

(no matter what you personally think about the quality of those opponents, because we can play that game with Ali's record as well all day long).

You said you could pick apart Ali's resume right..... I take it you support Wlads resume

How can you do both???

[cupocity303]

Correct me if I'm wrong..... Refering to this statement


You said you could pick apart Ali's resume right..... I take it you support Wlads resume

How can you do both???

If the basis for your argument is that Ali would beat Wlad easily because:

*Wlad struggled or lost Vs (insert fighter here) but

*Ali did great vs (insert fighter here), therfore Ali TKO Wlad; then yes I will pick his resume apart for the purpose of destroying the argument that Ali has faced anyone who even remotely resembled Wlad.

There is a lot of Boxing Socialism going on when discussing past and present Era's. You've got redistribution of wealth in Socialist economics, and you've got redistribution of Greatness in Boxing. Anyone who defeated a Great fighter from the past is automatically considered Great himself. But if someone beats Wlad, completely the opposite. Redistributionism.

I.E. if someone beats up Ali or Joe Louis for example, they're being given credit as a Great Fighter. But if someone beats up Wlad, or gives him problems, it's the opposite. It's used to discredit Wlad because look - he is not so dominant anymore, this guy knocked him down 3 times (Peter) and that guy knocked him out. His chin sucks and his opponent sucked. Never mind that his opponent was a hard puncher and had a decent record on his own merit.

It's this automatic favoritism towards anything from days past. Even the bums from the 50's and 60's are somehow elevated to elite status (just because I guess they're tougher for fighting on black and white TV), whereas here a bum is a bum. "Those pu$$ies on HD tv, they're too soft."

[Boxing Bob]

If the basis for your argument is that Ali would beat Wlad easily because:

*Wlad struggled or lost Vs (insert fighter here) but

*Ali did great vs (insert fighter here), therfore Ali TKO Wlad; then yes I will pick his resume apart for the purpose of destroying the argument that Ali has faced anyone who even remotely resembled Wlad.

There is a lot of Boxing Socialism going on when discussing past and present Era's. You've got redistribution of wealth in Socialist economics, and you've got redistribution of Greatness in Boxing. Anyone who defeated a Great fighter from the past is automatically considered Great himself. But if someone beats Wlad, completely the opposite. Redistributionism.

I.E. if someone beats up Ali or Joe Louis for example, they're being given credit as a Great Fighter. But if someone beats up Wlad, or gives him problems, it's the opposite. It's used to discredit Wlad because look - he is not so dominant anymore, this guy knocked him down 3 times (Peter) and that guy knocked him out. His chin sucks and his opponent sucked. Never mind that his opponent was a hard puncher and had a decent record on his own merit.

It's this automatic favoritism towards anything from days past. Even the bums from the 50's and 60's are somehow elevated to elite status (just because I guess they're tougher for fighting on black and white TV), whereas here a bum is a bum. "Those pu$$ies on HD tv, they're too soft."

interesting point of view and well thought out, but that doesn't make Wlad the better fighter. Wlad isn't gonna just lean on Ali, then clinch. When he ties that Alis hand speed will take over and Wlad will be KOed from a punch he doesn't even see coming