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Old 03-13-2010, 04:42 AM #11
sonnyboyx2 sonnyboyx2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Joey Giardello View Post
bert is over rated for a guy who knows his stuff how can he forget michael spinks, felix trinidad, harold johnson, holman williams and lennox lewis? and place roy jones at number 88?
only Spinks from your list would make my top 100, the others i would not give a 2nd thought too
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Old 03-13-2010, 04:56 AM #12
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Originally Posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post
so only guys who have boxed professionaly are taken seriously when ATG lists are put up, is what you are saying?

Bert Sugar has followed boxing for 50yrs, he was editor of the 2 biggest fight publications, "Boxing Illustrated & Ring Magazine" he has sat ringside for thousands of fights and wrote dozens of books and articles on the sport, yet you are claiming the guy has `No Idea`
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Now don't put words in my mouth, I said nothing about professional. In order to understand a sport it is required you have had experience playing it. Basketball analysts are ex-basketball players, football analysts are ex-football players, yet in Boxing you get plenty of guys who never boxed at all who claim to be experts.

Now I would have a hard time taking a basketball analyst seriously who never played the game, why should it be any different for boxing?
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Old 03-13-2010, 09:30 AM #13
sonnyboyx2 sonnyboyx2 is offline
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Originally Posted by DeepSleep View Post
Now don't put words in my mouth, I said nothing about professional. In order to understand a sport it is required you have had experience playing it. Basketball analysts are ex-basketball players, football analysts are ex-football players, yet in Boxing you get plenty of guys who never boxed at all who claim to be experts.

Now I would have a hard time taking a basketball analyst seriously who never played the game, why should it be any different for boxing?
Boxing - Ray Arcel , Gil Clancy & Eddie Futch never boxed yet they was the most knowledgable men in the history of the sport, i could name you a 100 successful football managers who never played the sport, the same goes for swimming, Horse Racing, Motor racing etc etc
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Old 03-13-2010, 11:04 AM #14
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Mike Tyson and Evander are in there, but not Lennox? GTFO.
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Old 03-13-2010, 12:58 PM #15
sonnyboyx2 sonnyboyx2 is offline
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Mike Tyson and Evander are in there, but not Lennox? GTFO.
if Bert was to put Lennox in he may as well put Danny Williams & Kevin McBride in because they beat Tyson when he was years past his best just like Lewis did, infact they both beat him easier than what Lewis did.. Lewis was unfortunate to only get a draw with a old Holyfield but Evander was robbed in their return fight, Lewis got KOd by a couple of journeymen fighters and beat a bunch of hand-picked Class C fighters, so Bert rightly gives Lennox zero credit for beating ATG legends Holyfield & Tyson
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Old 03-13-2010, 01:02 PM #16
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Originally Posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post
if Bert was to put Lennox in he may as well put Danny Williams & Kevin McBride in because they beat Tyson when he was years past his best just like Lewis did, infact they both beat him easier than what Lewis did.. Lewis was unfortunate to only get a draw with a old Holyfield but Evander was robbed in their return fight, Lewis got KOd by a couple of journeymen fighters and beat a bunch of hand-picked Class C fighters, so Bert rightly gives Lennox zero credit for beating ATG legends Holyfield & Tyson
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Old 03-13-2010, 01:12 PM #17
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Originally Posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post
Boxing - Ray Arcel , Gil Clancy & Eddie Futch never boxed yet they was the most knowledgable men in the history of the sport, i could name you a 100 successful football managers who never played the sport, the same goes for swimming, Horse Racing, Motor racing etc etc
I'm pretty sure that Futch boxed, he said he often sparred with the great Joe Louis, not sure about Glancy or Arcel. I'd be somewhat surprised if they didn't.

One can't deny Bert Sugar's contributions to the sport but I'm not so sure about how knowledgeable he truly is. Not only about boxing itself but its history. His writings and speeches are often inaccurate and he doesn't even seem to care whether he is being factual or not, considering that he keeps repeating myths that have long since been proven wrong.

He is a good writer however and tells a story better than most people could and he did do great work with the Ring Magazine.
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Old 03-13-2010, 01:48 PM #18
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Originally Posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post
Boxing - Ray Arcel , Gil Clancy & Eddie Futch never boxed yet they was the most knowledgable men in the history of the sport, i could name you a 100 successful football managers who never played the sport, the same goes for swimming, Horse Racing, Motor racing etc etc
Eddie Futch boxed and sparred with Joe Louis. He didn't fight pro because of a heart irregularity but he was a successful amateur.
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Old 03-13-2010, 02:17 PM #19
steeluv steeluv is offline
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its hard to say why he put benny leonard and harry greb up there in top ten, he was not around at the time of theses of these fighters, and the videos and quality are limited of these guys
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Old 03-13-2010, 02:38 PM #20
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Originally Posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post
if Bert was to put Lennox in he may as well put Danny Williams & Kevin McBride in because they beat Tyson when he was years past his best just like Lewis did, infact they both beat him easier than what Lewis did.. Lewis was unfortunate to only get a draw with a old Holyfield but Evander was robbed in their return fight, Lewis got KOd by a couple of journeymen fighters and beat a bunch of hand-picked Class C fighters, so Bert rightly gives Lennox zero credit for beating ATG legends Holyfield & Tyson
Also, while Lewis cracks most top 10 ATG HW lists, his 240-250 lb size is enough to keep him out of most top 100 ATG lists.
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