In your opinion could Fernando Vargas have been a great?

[Devils Advocate]

don't mind these phuckin bitttch ass haters....Vargas was definitely on his way to being a great fighter...he got robbed in the olympics of a Gold Medal, beat Winky Right but was definetly rushed along way to quick....Tito had to resort to low blows to handle Vargas..those low blows had a hugue affect on the fight.

Winky Wright was robbed no way Vargas should have got the win. Vargas was the victim of poor management. He could have been the ultimate Mexican Warrior north of the Welterweigt division. Prime Mosley vs Prime Vargas would have been a war.

[lebrick]

The difference being that Trinidad did it directly after being dropped, and it was right in the balls, not like a simple graze below the belt or to the hips. Im not suggesting that it was intentional..it happens occasionally....but it happened in a situation that HEAVILY favoured Vargas.

Getting hit in the balls hurts. badly. the fact that youre suggesting that Vargas did it as an 'act' when he had just dropped and badly hurt Trinidad is hilarious, and shows that youre not only a moron but incredibly biased.

being a fan of a certain type of fighter is one thing, but stop being so obviously biased.

that was a b!tch ass move IMO.. it was so intentional and a momentum killer. vargas smells blood and surely he will go for the kill. though it is not 100% sure he will succeed (might get drop by a tito counter), but atleast, the momentum is there.

[Plaster...Sad.]

The difference being that Trinidad did it directly after being dropped, and it was right in the balls, not like a simple graze below the belt or to the hips. Im not suggesting that it was intentional..it happens occasionally....but it happened in a situation that HEAVILY favoured Vargas.

Getting hit in the balls hurts. badly. the fact that youre suggesting that Vargas did it as an 'act' when he had just dropped and badly hurt Trinidad is hilarious, and shows that youre not only a moron but incredibly biased.

being a fan of a certain type of fighter is one thing, but stop being so obviously biased.

Just finished watching the 4th round for the 100th time... Tito was NOT hurt, Tito was NOT in a panic, he was in fact going for the kill as he always does when knocked down. Yes the punch was low, but intentional?? Why? For Vargas, who already informed Tito in round 1 that his chin was suspect for the hook. Give it a break, Tito would beat Vargas every night of the week. I am no moron, I just see with my own eyes and don't repeat cliche boxing folklore/propaganda e.g. "if not for that low blow Vargas would have KOd Tito in the 4th round." < Ahahahahahahahaha.

I give Vargas credit for being a good fighter. A great fighter? Nah.. exposed and trashed by everyone from Tito to Mayorga.


Fck outta here with that BS you fake ass fight analyst.

"I would favour Duran by mid round stoppage. Trinidad never had the best chin, and was dropped by fighters like Campas and Cortes who bulled into him on the inside with short shots. not to mention he was rocked on numerous occasions." ~Black Irish on Duran Vs Trinidad 147lbs. Ahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

[prinzemanspopa]

How is it that Trinidad goes from almost knocking Vargas out inside the first round to a position in the fight where Vargas is in control and dictating the fight? I mean,according to Trinidad's fanboys,he completely destroyed Vargas.



Vargas was more talented than both De La Hoya and Trinidad.De La Hoya did the job without the controversy,but it was against a version that had suffered a great decline following the Trinidad fight.He was all to eager to fight post-Trinidad Vargas - especially when the likes of Rivera and Flores were hurting him with single shots.

Winky Wright was robbed no way Vargas should have got the win.

No,he wasn't robbed.Nobody in their right mind,who actually knows how to score a fight would dare even make such an argument.Winky Wright cries and whines anytime a close decision isn't rendered in his favour.

[ROSS CALIFORNIA]

He was pretty damn good but fought Trinidad at the wrong time. Vargas might have been lacking in the chin dept. a bit and never really moved his head. He might have been a much better fighter if he had been brought up by different people, but thats the breaks.

[2badshoulders]

He was so young and such a talented fighter for his age. Do you think if he didnt fight tito so early that he could have been a different fighter...a great fighter? Tito was p4p the best when the 22 year old Vargas gave him the hardest fight of titos career. I think he would have been a first ballot hall of famer with the talent he had. A different trainer would have done a world of difference imo. thoughts?

I think Oscar was his undoing. Before the fight Fernando was confident, cocky, arrogant, whatever, necessary attributes for a successful fighter, but De La Hoya beat it out of him. He never had that same swagger that he did before that fight.

[Steak]

Just finished watching the 4th round for the 100th time... Tito was NOT hurt, Tito was NOT in a panic, he was in fact going for the kill as he always does when knocked down. Yes the punch was low, but intentional?? Why? For Vargas, who already informed Tito in round 1 that his chin was suspect for the hook. Give it a break, Tito would beat Vargas every night of the week. I am no moron, I just see with my own eyes and don't repeat cliche boxing folklore/propaganda e.g. "if not for that low blow Vargas would have KOd Tito in the 4th round." < Ahahahahahahahaha.

I give Vargas credit for being a good fighter. A great fighter? Nah.. exposed and trashed by everyone from Tito to Mayorga.


Fck outta here with that BS you fake ass fight analyst.

"I would favour Duran by mid round stoppage. Trinidad never had the best chin, and was dropped by fighters like Campas and Cortes who bulled into him on the inside with short shots. not to mention he was rocked on numerous occasions." ~Black Irish on Duran Vs Trinidad 147lbs. Ahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

1. If Trinidad was not hurt, he wouldnt have been planted on his ass. This was NOT an off balance knockdown. Trinidad was always a warrior and would try to fight through the pain like he did so often when he was dropped. To act like Trinidad was not phased is bull****, and the situation obviously killed the momentum that Vargas had at the moment, not to mention hurt like hell.

2. I very clearly said that Vargas would probably not have stopped Trinidad in the 4th round.

I dont think Vargas would have finished him there, but I think Vargas would have damaged him enough to the head and body that it would have carried on and helped him out a lot later in the fight.

stop being such a dip****.

3. Duran by mid round stoppage is not a ludicrous pick whatsoever. Duran did the same with Davey Moore, where he was up against a natural Light Middleweight champ and Moore was a very heavy favorite in the fight. Moore went on to KO Wilfredo Benitez in the first round, and had never been dropped in his past title defences...This wasnt even prime Duran.

Trinidad HAD been dropped in the past by weaker opposition...Anthony Stevens, Campas, Vargas, Alberto Mercedes Cortes, Carr, and one other guy I cant remember, Kevin something.

the Stephans knockdown is the most significant to me however, because it is a right hand almost exactly to the kind Duran was best at. Im not necessarily sure that Duran would have dropped Tito with it, but Im sure he would have hurt him with it.
And yes, Duran had power at Welterweight. He dropped Carlos Palomino, rocked Ray Leonard, and KOed Nsubungu or however you spell it, who was a top ten fighter in the division.

you are clearly biased. and delusional.

[Plaster...Sad.]

The only time Vargas looked good in the Tito fight, was when Tito abandoned all defense and began to try and land that hook. Tito was known to fall in love with his power and leave defense on the back burner. I never saw Tito in danger of losing that fight, I saw an impatient Tito looking to put Vargas back on his ass, and Vargas taking advantage of the freebies. Again, Vargas had heart but lacked what it took to beat your top tier fighters.

[Plaster...Sad.]

1. If Trinidad was not hurt, he wouldnt have been planted on his ass. This was NOT an off balance knockdown. Trinidad was always a warrior and would try to fight through the pain like he did so often when he was dropped. To act like Trinidad was not phased is bull****, and the situation obviously killed the momentum that Vargas had at the moment, not to mention hurt like hell.

2. I very clearly said that Vargas would probably not have stopped Trinidad in the 4th round.

stop being such a dip****.

3. Duran by mid round stoppage is not a ludicrous pick whatsoever. Duran did the same with Davey Moore, where he was up against a natural Light Middleweight champ and Moore was a very heavy favorite in the fight. Moore went on to KO Wilfredo Benitez in the first round, and had never been dropped in his past title defences...This wasnt even prime Duran.

Trinidad HAD been dropped in the past by weaker opposition...Anthony Stevens, Campas, Vargas, Alberto Mercedes Cortes, Carr, and one other guy I cant remember, Kevin something.

the Stephans knockdown is the most significant to me however, because it is a right hand almost exactly to the kind Duran was best at. Im not necessarily sure that Duran would have dropped Tito with it, but Im sure he would have hurt him with it.
And yes, Duran had power at Welterweight. He dropped Carlos Palomino, rocked Ray Leonard, and KOed Nsubungu or however you spell it, who was a top ten fighter in the division.

you are clearly biased. and delusional.

No delusional, just not buying your Duran the KO king at 147 BS. Bottom line, Tito pummels Duran into submission in less than 5 rounds. You are delusional if you fail to see CLARITY in Tito's eyes when he got knocked down in the 4th. His legs were there too kid. You are sensationalizing a BS knock down for what reason... I don't know. You lose all credibility as when you suggest Tito had a weak chin. Tito got caught in the middle of throwing a bomb at Vargas, how can you say he was not off balanced or ready to catch that shot? Granted, it was a nice shot, but Tito shrugged that sht off like nothing. I think you need a VCR with slow mo and maybe lay off that Hennesey.

Everybody is tryin to be Freddie Pacheco in 2011.

[Steak]

No delusional, just not buying your Duran the KO king at 147 BS. Bottom line, Tito pummels Duran into submission in less than 5 rounds.

Trinidad does something that prime Marvin Hagler couldnt do. hilarious. And in Durans prime, at his 2nd best weight. Where he beat the 2nd best Welterweight of all time. Even better!

Its funny, I can make all these arguments against you, but in the end your own actions convey your bias more than anything else.

You are delusional if you fail to see CLARITY in Tito's eyes when he got knocked down in the 4th. His legs were there too kid. You are sensationalizing a BS knock down for what reason... I don't know. You lose all credibility as when you suggest Tito had a weak chin. Tito got caught in the middle of throwing a bomb at Vargas, how can you say he was not off balanced or ready to catch that shot? Granted, it was a nice shot, but Tito shrugged that sht off like nothing. I think you need a VCR with slow mo and maybe lay off that Hennesey.

Everybody is tryin to be Freddie Pacheco in 2011.

Trinidad was very obviously hurt. I went ahead and bit, and rewatched the round. turns out Trinidad was obviously rocked. you see his knees give in...particularly his right knee...and he freezes in place in defense, the only punch he throws is the low blow. hell, you clearly see his right leg slip out from underneath him, sending him falling backwards: not to the side, where the momentum of the punch was directing him.

and how in the hell does Trinidad not have a weak chin? The guy was KNOWN for going down in the early rounds. He had a ton of fighting spirit, which is why it was very difficult for fighters to finish the job, but this isnt just some random punch guy were talking about here. this is Roberto Duran, one of the most methodical destroying machines in the history of the sport.