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Old 11-30-2017, 02:31 PM #21
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Originally Posted by soul_survivor View Post
Marquez best win was an almost shot Barrera and he had 0-1-1 with his greatest rival. Not to mention a loss to John only a year or so earlier.

Calzaghe had unified his division, been a champion for a decade and beaten the best prime opponents his division had to offer and done so mostly with ease.

Both Calzaghe had HOpkins were higher up in 2007, there is no discussion for it.
I think Barrera still had a lot at that stage. He had looked nothing short of sensational against Morales in fight III and easily defeated Fana, Peden, Juarez (fight II) coming into the bout and showed excellent skill in a losing effort. I think Marquez subsequent performances support that theory more than downplay Marquez' win. Marquez looked fantastic in just about every fight around then. I think that was the last fight where Barrera came in motivated, hungry and confident. He gave a lot that night.

The Chris John fight was a grotesque robbery. I mean really, really bad. Up there with Pacquaio-Bradley I levels of stink. Marquez had also beaten the best the featherwieght division had to offer (except the draw with Pacquaio). Peden, Salido, Medina, Gainer, John.

In 2007 Calzaghe had for certain earned a high ranking but Marquez was the better fighter. However, a higher ranking at that point for Calzaghe was justified. He was at the end of a fantastic career and what he did to Lacy and Kessler on the back of a dominant run was the mark of a great fighter.

Hopkins I don't think was a better fighter than Marquez in 2007. I actually don't think he lost either Taylor fight but he was no longer "The Executioner" and was clearly declining but still great.
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Old 11-30-2017, 03:25 PM #22
soul_survivor soul_survivor is offline
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Originally Posted by chrisJS View Post
I think Barrera still had a lot at that stage. He had looked nothing short of sensational against Morales in fight III and easily defeated Fana, Peden, Juarez (fight II) coming into the bout and showed excellent skill in a losing effort. I think Marquez subsequent performances support that theory more than downplay Marquez' win. Marquez looked fantastic in just about every fight around then. I think that was the last fight where Barrera came in motivated, hungry and confident. He gave a lot that night.

The Chris John fight was a grotesque robbery. I mean really, really bad. Up there with Pacquaio-Bradley I levels of stink. Marquez had also beaten the best the featherwieght division had to offer (except the draw with Pacquaio). Peden, Salido, Medina, Gainer, John.

In 2007 Calzaghe had for certain earned a high ranking but Marquez was the better fighter. However, a higher ranking at that point for Calzaghe was justified. He was at the end of a fantastic career and what he did to Lacy and Kessler on the back of a dominant run was the mark of a great fighter.

Hopkins I don't think was a better fighter than Marquez in 2007. I actually don't think he lost either Taylor fight but he was no longer "The Executioner" and was clearly declining but still great.
You havent seen the JOhn/JMM fight if you think that was a robbery. You would have to have JMM winning almost every round for him to be ahead even after losing two points, which no one saw in the arena. Not even the only western journalist there.
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Old 11-30-2017, 03:36 PM #23
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You havent seen the JOhn/JMM fight if you think that was a robbery. You would have to have JMM winning almost every round for him to be ahead even after losing two points, which no one saw in the arena. Not even the only western journalist there.
I've seen it multiple times. I got the DVD like 3-4 days after it happened from an Indonesian Boxing writer on ********* called Jeffrey Pamungus or something.

The two deductions were bogus too. John had a very high cup and they still didn't even go below the belt.

Marquez won 9 or 10 rounds.
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Old 11-30-2017, 03:46 PM #24
soul_survivor soul_survivor is offline
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Originally Posted by chrisJS View Post
I've seen it multiple times. I got the DVD like 3-4 days after it happened from an Indonesian Boxing writer on ********* called Jeffrey Pamungus or something.

The two deductions were bogus too. John had a very high cup and they still didn't even go below the belt.

Marquez won 9 or 10 rounds.
I could understand someone thinking it was a close victory for JMM but to claim he won 10 rounds is madness. You havent seen the fight, I just cant believe anyone who saw it would think that way. Its as contrived a controversy as Jacobs/GGG.

No one in attendance or the judges or the journalists thought JMM won until months, heck even years later when it became a trend.
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Old 11-30-2017, 03:59 PM #25
chrisJS chrisJS is online now
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I could understand someone thinking it was a close victory for JMM but to claim he won 10 rounds is madness. You havent seen the fight, I just cant believe anyone who saw it would think that way. Its as contrived a controversy as Jacobs/GGG.

No one in attendance or the judges or the journalists thought JMM won until months, heck even years later when it became a trend.
That's false. I was probably one of the first people outside of Indonesia to watch it. I think I got the copy by like the Wednesday. I scored it then and posted it on maxboxing forums at that time and others scoffed at the notion it was a robbery & claimed I hadn't seen it until the fight was posted and then everybody said it was a robbery and admitted that I did see the fight.

I think there was on US journo there that was it.

8-4 is plausible which is 114-112 with the B.S deductions. But in reality the deductions were B.S just like the cards. I stand by the fact Marquez won 9 or 10 rounds. John did good at looking busy and moving around a lot, shoe shining here and there but Marquez landed the cleaner, harder, better shots consistently throughout. The commentary goes nuts at nothing from John and maybe that sways some but there's a reason EVERYONE thinks it was a robbery. Even the majority overrule the retards on GGG-Jacobs.
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