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View Poll Results: what say you fairminded boxing fans?
yes..................... 50 43.10%
no....................... 36 31.03%
its all negotiation tactics...................... 30 25.86%
Voters: 116. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-07-2009, 02:25 AM #101
Benny Leonard Benny Leonard is offline
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Originally Posted by mathed View Post
Well, if the fight was at a lower weight and Floyd had to compromise a bit, then I think it would be different. If he knocks out JMM everyone will be saying it's only because JMM had to put on weight and was out of his element. Pac would still get credit in many people's eyes because they were in the same weight class and there could be no discrepancy regarding any weight issues. I think that's precisely why Pac gets so much credit for the Hatton win. Although PBF ko'd Hatton, it took 10 rds while Pac only took 2 and had to come up in weight as well.
JMM doesn't have to put on weight he doesn't want: he has the option. Floyd had this same option when he fought Oscar. Floyd didn't blow-up in weight for that fight because he knew it would not be good.

JMM can even put rocks in his pockets if he wants just to reach the desired weight for the scales.


The key is to show up at your best weight for the fight.


And once a fighter is knocked out, especially at this stage of JMM career, he may not be the same. That happens to fighters. Especially if he does take a beating.
Not saying he will, but just saying if he does.


Freddie would probably take that match though; he likes getting guys drained or on their way out.
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Old 05-07-2009, 02:28 AM #102
roujinziro roujinziro is offline
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I think this is obviously a negotiating ploy. Roach knows Paquiao is in the driver's seat as far as any and all future fights go, and that includes the fight with Money May. Even if the fight money will probably be split 50-50 Pacman should still have the advantage in negotiating the catchweight and anything else.
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Old 05-07-2009, 02:29 AM #103
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Originally Posted by strugler View Post
So HBO weight is unofficial..just like freddies opinion..........dont bury yourself further......LOL
Answer my question?

Same day weigh-in, right?

We should bring this back. Make sure you back me when I bring this up since a 140 pound fighter should be a 140 pound fighter come fight-time.

Did you listen to the interview by the way?
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Old 05-07-2009, 02:31 AM #104
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Originally Posted by roujinziro View Post
I think this is obviously a negotiating ploy. Roach knows Paquiao is in the driver's seat as far as any and all future fights go, and that includes the fight with Money May. Even if the fight money will probably be split 50-50 Pacman should still have the advantage in negotiating the catchweight and anything else.
It's still a ***** move because it reads that Manny/Freddie are scared to fight a HEALTHY fighter. But that's Freddie. Leave your water and food unguarded for one minute and you come back and have a heavy dose of arsenic in it.

Last edited by Benny Leonard; 05-07-2009 at 02:40 AM.
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Old 05-07-2009, 02:53 AM #105
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Originally Posted by RodBarker View Post
He only went to 147 for Oscar and Roach had a pretty good idea Oscar could not make 147 , it was smart match making they were not proving Manny is a WW they picked a high profile fighter and matched him to win they wasn't making a statement to the WW division , Floyd did the same , these two are not true welters when you look at the history of the division they are Jnr Welters , the thing Im calling for is a fair fight and a few pounds is ok but these guys get out weighed by a huge amount at fight time by the big welters like Margo and Williams , just because they can win at WW dont mean they are Welters and thats the reason they want catchweights to make it a fairer fight ,, why are you so against catchweights between special elite fighters that are at both ends of a division scale .
Sorry, but that sounds like excuses.



If you can't take the heat in the divisions kitchen,

don't go there in the first place and knock someone out.

How many catchweights did Duran, Leonard, Hearns and Hagler fight at?
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Old 05-07-2009, 03:22 AM #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gallo Negro! View Post
Exactly, I don't see what the problem is either.
Hey...

Pac and Cotto are BOTH interested in fighting each other. Matter of record.
They are not the same weight class. Also a matter of record.

I understand why you feel catchweights stink:
If you're going to fight Welters, then weigh in at welter.
but it cuts the other way too, for Cotto, Shane, etc...
If you're going to fight Junior Welters, then make JWW.

Really:
Cotto can make 142, but he'll have serious discomfort getting there.
Pac can make 147, but he had serious discomfort the last time he did.
They will compromise, then, so the discomfort on either side is even.

Got nothing to do with whether Pac has already fought at 147 or not:
Pac found it difficult to make 147, and you can refer to the interviews
given back then: Roach felt that was going to be the ONE and ONLY
time Pac'd ever try to make 147; and they did it just once because of
the glory and revenue that Oscar represented.

Pac has recently said he's willing to fight at 147 (or up to 147),
and I believe he would, but his trainer and team might have a better
handle on just how Pac's body would take another trip north in lbs.
Like Cotto, Pac will fight whoever his promoters say, and leave the
details up to them ---unless the terms insult his dignity.

If Cotto himself doesn't mind a catchweight, what's the problem?
They'll settle on 144, and enter the ring near their usual weight anyway,
but with the catchweight stipulation, both sides will have experienced
roughly the same difficulty making catchweight. Fair?


This does NOT mean Roach hasn't sneakily been trying to turn
Pac's opponents into zombies before fight night. I'm just saying the
means Roach is using aren't disallowed, no matter what a ***** Roach
is for trying, and that in Cotto's case (less so in Shane's), it does'nt
really work.



h.

Last edited by horge; 05-07-2009 at 03:42 AM.
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Old 05-07-2009, 03:34 AM #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horge View Post
Hey...

Pac and Cotto are BOTH interested in fighting each other. Matter of record.
They are not the same weight class. Also a matter of record.

Cotto can make 142, but he'll have serious discomfort getting there.
Pac can make 147, but he had serious discomfort the last time he did.

They will compromise, then, so the discomfort on either side is even.
Got nothing to do with whether Pac has already fought at 147 or not:
Pac found it difficult to make 147, and you can refer to all the interviews
given back then: Roach felt that was going to be the ONE and ONLY
time Pac'd ever try to make 147; and they did it just once because of
the glory and revenue that Oscar represented.

Pac has recently said he's willing to fight at 147 (actually, up to 147),
and I believe he would, but his trainer and team might have a better
handle on just how Pac's body would take another trip north of 147.
Like Cotto, Pac will fight whoever his promoters say, and leave the
details up to them ---unless the terms insult his dignity.

If Cotto himself doesn't mind a catchweight, what's the problem?
They'll settle on 144, and enter the ring near their usual weights anyway,
but with the catchweight stipulation, both sides will have experienced
roughly the same difficulty making catchweight.

h.


As a fan, I can't speak from the fighters perspective,

only mine.


As a fan with an opinion,

I think its chicken **** to fight at catchweights. As I've stated before, I understand the reasoning behind it in regards to both health and finances. My disagreement in part comes when a fighter has already fought at a weight higher than what the agreed upon catchweight would be as in Pacs case.


What was the point of having Taylor Pavlik II at 164 or whatever weight it was? Neither had fought higher than 160 in any major fight. What would the difference have been at 168?

If Floyd can easily make 140 as many of his fans say, why make a 2 fight lightweight come up above that to 143 or 147?


Winky fought Hops strictly for the bread. Everyone knows hes been hurting for the money and was looking for a big name fight. As has been stated previously, what did that fight do for the jr. HW division, much less the sport?
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Old 05-07-2009, 03:34 AM #108
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It's aight, the divisions is there for a reason
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Old 05-07-2009, 03:38 AM #109
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To be honest he should not be considered a Welterweight Champion unless he fights Mosley/Cotto at 147. That catchweight should not be for the title.
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Old 05-07-2009, 03:48 AM #110
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Gallo,

All I can do is lay out why it might make sense to the fighters themselves
and to their outfits. Fact remains that Cotto doesn't mind making 145,
and Roach wants 142-144.

I don't see the problem to a point where I'd rather not see them fight.
..you DO want to see them fight, no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpain81 View Post
To be honest he should not be considered a Welterweight Champion unless he fights Mosley/Cotto at 147. That catchweight should not be for the title.
Can't disagree with that.
Which is why I've always said <147 for Cotto is bull****,
but not because Cotto is thereby disadvantaged.
That's all I want to say: that no matter what Roach thinks he is
trying to pull, Cotto will be a live 100% opponent come fight night.

I do say a catchweight is bull**** because the belt at stake is at WW, therefore as long Cotto clears 147, fight should be on.

Pac has SAID he's willing to fight guys up to 147, so Roach/Arum
should let him. He can beat Cotto at true WW, and I do want
Pac to win #7 cleanly.


h.

Last edited by horge; 05-07-2009 at 05:09 AM.
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