Does Rocky Marciano's 50th victory, KO of Muhammad Ali, make him the GOAT?

[Granath]

Oh it's true, people do hate Marciano, but, it isn't racism it's boxing bias.

Marciano is a shining example of how so much of boxing is unfounded bull**** people just repeat unchallenged. In order to retain certain stances that are popular in boxing circles fans must make excuses for the anomaly that is Marciano.

I like your post but trimmed it a bit because I don't want to quote the whole thing. It is boxing bias but I think it's different than you think. Marciano is seen as the last great pre-modern HW. I'm not saying he is but there's definitely a bias that Ali (and therefore Liston before him) is the start of the modern HW era. Ali (Frazier/Foreman) begot Holmes begot Tyson begot Holyfield/Bowe/Lewis...and so on.

That's also the reason that Floyd Patterson isn't even considered a great HW at all (and I'm not arguing he should). But in my experience those guys are considered from a different era - smaller, shorter, slower and not as skilled. I think that's not necessarily correct but that's how Rocky is seen because that's how all pre-modern HWs are seen.

It also has to do with the minimum number of title defenses. Rock got his start late for boxing - 24 - and therefore wasn't even hitting the bigger fights until he was about 30. Thus he only defended his title 6 times and then walked away at 32.

So I agree with you in the way he is seen but I believe it's due to a different cause. I'm not saying it's right.

[Zonkmeister]

Maybe Tyson Fury could hit like a goddamn anti tank rifle if he punched like Marciano.

There's a very good chance it would be so. Fury's huge and strong like an ox, just seems to throw his punches in a flicking manner, does something weird with his wrists at times (definitely more concerned with speed and not hurting his arms than with power, almost as if he were fighting bare-knuckle. Maybe it's a Gypsy thing).

Maybe he should read this before the Wilder rematch: https://openlibrary.org/works/OL1780...d_Bodybuilding

(BTW., to anyone who's read it - is that book any good? There's also supposedly "On the Use of the Body" co-written by Marciano, Mike Mollo cites it as an inspiration in his wikipedia article)

[KidDinamita]

You must be joking. Nobody would seriously call that a fight. A fight is when both fighters do their very best to win. The Rocky vs Ali fight was completely stagged and the boxers did as the director told them to do.

First punch that Ali threw, moved the wig of Marciano .

I am a big fan of Marciano, but I think Ali had speed, stamina and chin to keep Marciano away and win a UD.

[Marchegiano]

There's a very good chance it would be so. Fury's huge and strong like an ox, just seems to throw his punches in a flicking manner, does something weird with his wrists at times (definitely more concerned with speed and not hurting his arms than with power, almost as if he were fighting bare-knuckle. Maybe it's a Gypsy thing).

Maybe he should read this before the Wilder rematch: https://openlibrary.org/works/OL1780...d_Bodybuilding

(BTW., to anyone who's read it - is that book any good? There's also supposedly "On the Use of the Body" co-written by Marciano, Mike Mollo cites it as an inspiration in his wikipedia article)

I think in Tyson's case the belief is he has plenty of natural power due to his size so it's better for him to focus on defense.

Marciano's book is pretty good, but, Dempsey's is easily found for free online.

[Marchegiano]

I like your post but trimmed it a bit because I don't want to quote the whole thing. It is boxing bias but I think it's different than you think. Marciano is seen as the last great pre-modern HW. I'm not saying he is but there's definitely a bias that Ali (and therefore Liston before him) is the start of the modern HW era. Ali (Frazier/Foreman) begot Holmes begot Tyson begot Holyfield/Bowe/Lewis...and so on.

That's also the reason that Floyd Patterson isn't even considered a great HW at all (and I'm not arguing he should). But in my experience those guys are considered from a different era - smaller, shorter, slower and not as skilled. I think that's not necessarily correct but that's how Rocky is seen because that's how all pre-modern HWs are seen.

It also has to do with the minimum number of title defenses. Rock got his start late for boxing - 24 - and therefore wasn't even hitting the bigger fights until he was about 30. Thus he only defended his title 6 times and then walked away at 32.

So I agree with you in the way he is seen but I believe it's due to a different cause. I'm not saying it's right.

I could probably write a whole separate rant on the modern HW theory. You'd think evolution was a fact proven by sports the way some of these fellas speak.

I should probably write a thread pointing out how and why boxing is dictated by the audience who watches.

[Curtis Harper]

Holy crap.....a simulated ''fight'' counts ?!?!?!?!?

[QueensburyRules]

--- Boxing is fought with rules not always enforced, a sorta simulation of a real fight with no rules.

Rock and Ali fought with simulated rules designed to make it look like a fight for the rubes to eat their shorts over while protecting the integrity of Rocky and Ali.

Definitely more honorable than the TUE 50-0 Japanese fight against a Banty making his boxing debut.

[Zonkmeister]

I think in Tyson's case the belief is he has plenty of natural power due to his size so it's better for him to focus on defense.

That's also true. I don't think there's a heavyweight right now capable of actually walking through his "pitty-pat" (lol) punches even when he's not going all out on them; they apparently sting enough to give even the toughest guys pause.

Up to him to add a couple of nice KTFO shots to his arsenal, with his skill-set it shouldn't take him long to do so.

Dempsey's book is pretty great, after reading it I can't get over how some crappy trainers insist on adding rotation to their jabs, lol. "It's a straight punch, keep it straight!"

[sleazyfellow]

Yeah Marciano should of fought him huh, when Ali was 11 years old or younger when Marciano was champ. Dumb thread, two totally different eras and two very unorthodox styles. If you put it in terms of a fantasy style match up, Ali is a nightmare for any heavyweight in history, it's hard seeing Ali (as clay vs Liston first fight) getting caught with anything and his hands cut up people.

['b']

TS is ''smart''....didnt make this a poll

The only ones taking poles are your mom and sister.

phew.....good thing i typed poll

.....