How Did Boxers Move Up In Weight In "The Old Days"?

[OctoberRed]

Making weight was just as tough then .
Jake LaMotta and Bobby Chacon used to sit in the sauna to make weight.

Today, fkrrs can dehydrate till the day before the fight and rehydrate after the weigh in.

Probably tougher with same day weighins and fighting later that day. Now guys like Munguia put on 22 pounds on one night.

[OCPancho]

Probably tougher with same day weighins and fighting later that day. Now guys like Munguia put on 22 pounds on one night.

That **** oughta be illegal.
JCC Jr is the worst at that .
Canelo was bad too.
Morales looked like a prisoner of war of weigh-in day.
The next day , he's all revived .

[QueensburyRules]

--- Fighters suffered just as bad in the old days.

Much ado over nothing.

[GelfSara]

--- Fighters have always trained with weights circa Corbett who obtained some dumbells and testified they done him some good, and Sullivan in his training against Kilrain by top 'rassler of the day Muldoon who was the only guy in existence who could boss Sully into shape at that point.

What modern trainers frowned on was the resulting power lifting, bodybuilding weight lifting culture that followed, and without coincidence, that's where steroids were introduced that the press and boxing denied for decades.

I'm aware that boxers have always done weight training--situps, pushups, pullups, and other body weight exercises are of course classic examples; a muscle doesn't know or care whether the resistance it is working against comes in the form of a barbell, Nautilus machine, or the weight of the user's body.

As to the second, however--I've seen many proscriptions against weight training by "old school" trainers and boxing fans without any sort of qualifications--and I'm not sure I understand what the proscriptions against "bodybuilding" or "powerlifting" "cultures" would "be about" unless they pertained to the weight training practices themselves--unless they were arguments against the absurd, such as "a boxer should not discontinue boxing training in favor of weight training"--which no sane person would recommend.

[GelfSara]

From what I’ve seen there wasn’t so much focus on weight in the old days.

You weighed what you weighed. Robinson didn’t go he’ll for leather trying to stack on weight to fight at LHW, he got to the weight he felt comfortable fighting at and that was that. Same with Billy Conn at HW, Mickey Walker, Armstrong and others as they climbed weights.

poundage

Certainly this was in part true. When watching older fights I am struck by how much more common it was for middleweights to weigh in at 157, welterweights at 144, etc.

Today, boxers attempt to weigh as close to the maximum permitted weight as possible.

[GelfSara]

The main issue with weight training is the time taken for this activity in turn takes away from learning boxing skill.

In general, the old-timers who were (or are) opposed to the use of weight-training in the conditioning of boxers didn't or don't make this argument; they tended to argue that weight training--rather than being a less effective means of preparing a boxer for a fight because it was less sport-specific than sparring, bag work, etc.---was actually detrimental to boxers because it would slow them down, cause them to become less flexible, impair their endurance, ruin their timing, etc. The myth of the "musclebound" strength-trainee comes to mind (an interesting article on this myth: https://journals.lww.com/nsca-scj/Ci..._of_the.6.aspx ; here is another one by Arthur Jones in which he touches on the origin of the myth: http://www.arthurjonesexercise.com/Bulletin1/22.PDF ).

BTW--sport-specific training certainly should take precedence; the most important training for tennis players is playing tennis and practicing the components of tennis (the serve, the return of serve, etc.), just as the most important training for boxers is sparring, bag work, etc. however, one rapidly reaches a point of diminishing returns if one focuses exclusively on sport-specific training; this is particularly true for professional boxers who can in theory devote 70+ hours per week to training.

[QueensburyRules]

--- Body builders were considered the dumb brutes of creation as were football players.

Ironically it was the greatest, most original NFL coach in history, Tom Landry, who introduced year round training with modern weight machines, specific diets, and computers to create spread sheets on players and draftees to professionally turn the brute creation theory on its noggin.

Of course still many in the populace adhere closely to the brute creation, riddick Bowe, a poster boy, but still, mind, technique, and discipline essential for true greats.

[HOUDINI563]

Johnson, Dempsey, Tunney, Louis, Marciano, Ali all became ATG hwt champions without weight training per se. The bodybuilder as a fighter mentality is one reason the skill set of today's hwts is so poor. Look good, get big, and forget about boxing fundamentals.

[Dempsey-Louis]

--- Body builders were considered the dumb brutes of creation as were football players.

Ironically it was the greatest, most original NFL coach in history, Tom Landry, who introduced year round training with modern weight machines, specific diets, and computers to create spread sheets on players and draftees to professionally turn the brute creation theory on its noggin.

Of course still many in the populace adhere closely to the brute creation, riddick Bowe, a poster boy, but still, mind, technique, and discipline essential for true greats.

Second greatest coach.

[Dempsey-Louis]

We now know that sparring is the cause of most pugilistic dementia. Big shots to the head cause damage, but repeated small blows over years does the long term damage.

Headgear and big training gloves turned out to be the worst possible 'protection' a fighter could use; causing the punches not to 'hurt' thus allowing the fighter to take hundreds of blows over the course of a day, with each blow (as light as they are) causing micro twists that rips at the brain's cells.

This is why it is the NFL interior linemen who are suffering the most (greatest long term damage); it is the constant small helmet to helmet hits they take at the line of scrimmage, in both game and practice, that does the long term damage.

Were as the QB and WR who are at risk for concussions (and broken bones) from high velocity hits, are not showing the same signs of long term dementia as the interior linemen. Several KO losses (concussions) over a career will not cause dementia.

Protective gear whether headgear or football helmet, allows for repeated light blows to the head; EVERY light blow to the head does some micro ripping of the brain cell.

Spend a career sparring with headgear and 18 oz gloves and you will suffer some level of dementia. You might as well be an NFL lineman wearing a helmet; it won't protect you, it will only make you foolish enough to take repeated blows.

And now that we know this, sparring needs to stop, (or be extremely limited) and the trainers, managers, and other wannabees who promote 'gym wars' (coerce kids into pointlessly proving themselves in the gym) need to be charged with assault.